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One of the issues in the U. S. is that grades are relatively meaningless until students begin earning Carnegie units for graduation. When a student falls seriously behind on the graduation track, our system mandates a horde of interventionists to get the kid across the stage with a diploma so that the school and district won't get dinged on accountability ratings. When you see young people spend literally years on school rosters and end up with a handful of credits, it becomes an exercise in futility. I've known more than one 21-year-old 9th-grader who only came to school for the food and customers until they were found out and sent off to live as adults.
Perhaps if we in the U. S. might consider making a switch in our program that would make secondary education dependent upon progress. In France, for example, there is a series of exams used to determine secondary and tertiary education. Parents sometimes make the decision with the schools to have students repeat a year in order to improve their performance on the exams. But the onus is on the students to pass them if they want to have choices for their education.
Another thought is to have a vocational program for those who can't or won't make it academically. LH, great post!
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Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
IIRC one McDonald's CEO actually did start out flipping burgers in high school. Sometimes a kid who won't apply himself in school will apply himself on the job. Not common but it can happen.
As a Florida resident for over two decades….The school system in this state has such a low bar for graduation that an elderly person who was bound to a wheelchair could jump over it. I’m all for increases in accountability, even if they are marginal. And big props to the teacher for sticking it to the goofy Yes-Man principal.
Last edited by StarryKnight1; 04-15-2023 at 12:55 AM..
Refusal to do work or misbehavior doesn't mean Special Ed, there have to be underlying conditions for the classification determined by testing.
Great, so we will keep the disruptive student in class because of the flunky status quo. How far does it have to get before you can send the kid off? When he shoots up the school and takes dozens of lives with him? When is enough, truly enough?
Great, so we will keep the disruptive student in class because of the flunky status quo. How far does it have to get before you can send the kid off? When he shoots up the school and takes dozens of lives with him? When is enough, truly enough?
We don't "send off" kids who qualify for Special Ed. If anything they get more services and attention than kids in regular educational programming.
A kid refusing to work or being disruptive is not a disability and Sp Ed isn't a dumping ground. The kids in Sp Ed programs don't deserve to have to deal with those kids any more than the kids in regular ed do. If anything, many of them need an extra stable and positive environment.
Admittedly, my time in school was a long time ago, but a grade of zero was handed out if it was deserved. I see that things have really changed in the meantime:
"In an interview with local news outlet WPTV, Tirado explained that she had been hired during the 2018 summer break to teach eighth-grade social studies at the Florida school. She had spent 17 years as a teacher, with education experience in different grades and classrooms, both online and in-person.
Only in her first year at West Gate, Tirado said she had been fired for ignoring the school's "No Zero" policy, which is printed in the student and parent handbook as “no zeroes – lowest possible grade is 50%.”
Tirado was forced to learn about the policy after some of her students didn't complete an assignment that she had given them two weeks to do. As a result, the school chose to fire Tirado."
This is how we teach children there are no consequences for anything.
Then we wonder how phenomena such as "Bare Minimum Mondays" are born.
Bare-Minimum Monday is the newest workplace buzz phrase gaining attention
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Marisa Jo Mayes, a TikTok creator who works for herself, is credited with coining the term and popularizing it. As she shared in an Insider story, she was experiencing the “Sunday Scaries” — that is, dreading the workweek ahead — and “realized something had to change.”
Her solution: to do, well, the bare minimum on Monday.
“I don’t take meetings and take it slow for the first two hours. I’ll do some reading, some journaling, maybe some stuff around the house,” Mayes explained. “It’s two hours of no technology — no checking email — just doing whatever I need to do to feel good starting my day.”
Mayes has gotten plenty of viral-like attention for her buzz phrase — and some are taking the concept seriously. “It’s a real thing,” said CNN’s chief business correspondent, Christine Romans.
The term "percent" means fraction from 100. We can decide to use 1000, or pi to be a full score. But if you are using a "percent" scale, it means fraction of what a full 100 point score would be.
Scoring on a 100 point scale but only using the top half of the scale is disingenuous at best.
Although this discussion illustrates the American fascination with trying to get better performance from about the bottom 25% of students, writ large. Is that really what the public, who is paying for this nonsense, really wants? But that's worth it's own thread.
I can assure you, the Russian education system does not concentrate on the least capable students.
No that's not what the public wants. I think in the bottom line of the discussion most things that come out of education are either what some small group of special snowflakes wants or what educators themselves want. There's a lot of disingenuous "it's for the children" cover stories, but it's funny how you can never find anyone who takes responsibility for much of this, uh, "stuff." It's always a "policy" or "an approach" or something. But no one ever owns it.
Another thought is to have a vocational program for those who can't or won't make it academically. LH, great post!
That compliments my idea above.
This post of yours is what I've advocated before in schools. We've GOT to quit beating our heads against a wall trying to academically raise up those kids who refuse to try and/or are always disruptive in a classroom. You're destroying the ability for the rest of the class to learn.
After multiple attempts to get through to these kind of kids, there needs to be a transitional school they can be sent to for life skills and some form of vocational training. If they make no effort there, KICK THEM OUT OF SCHOOL. It's the inevitable place they will end up anyway.
Now, I understand that not all school systems are capable of running this alternative school, mainly because of school size or geography. Yet, for those that can utilize this, I see it as positive step for everyone involved.
We don't "send off" kids who qualify for Special Ed. If anything they get more services and attention than kids in regular educational programming.
A kid refusing to work or being disruptive is not a disability and Sp Ed isn't a dumping ground. The kids in Sp Ed programs don't deserve to have to deal with those kids any more than the kids in regular ed do. If anything, many of them need an extra stable and positive environment.
I wasn’t saying to put disruptive students in SPED. I was asking just how “disruptive” they have to be before they are placed in alternative arrangements, which didn’t necessarily mean SPED.
Got it, so the disruptive kids stay in class and destroy the environment for the rest of the class, status quo of the good old boy’s club because we can’t/won’t/aren’t willing to do anything else, thank you for clarifying.
Great, so we will keep the disruptive student in class because of the flunky status quo. How far does it have to get before you can send the kid off? When he shoots up the school and takes dozens of lives with him? When is enough, truly enough?
That's not at all what he said. He said misbehavior or refusal to do work is not a special ed category. You seem to have zero concept of what special education is.
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