U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-08-2023, 06:47 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
37,120 posts, read 14,665,393 times
Reputation: 31633

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
If the test tests what should be taught, then teaching to the test makes some sense...with limits.

But I think back to the 1960s when I was a high school student taking Regents exams in NYS. Some of the teachers would spend more than a month doing almost nothing beyond having us take old Regents exams (you could buy paperback books with the old tests) and then going over them. Such a waste.
Well they don't do that anymore and now the tests are all multiple choice..not fill in the blanks.
Gives the kids a 25% chance of guessing the right answer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-08-2023, 07:39 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
43,700 posts, read 58,091,556 times
Reputation: 59072
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well they don't do that anymore and now the tests are all multiple choice..not fill in the blanks.
Gives the kids a 25% chance of guessing the right answer.
Actually a bit more than 25%. On most multiple choice (also called Selected Response) tests, if they're constructed properly, have two choices that are not close to being correct, one that is close and one that is exactly correct.

One of the techniques used in SAT Prep, which filtered down to test prep for mandated end of course exams, was teaching the kids how to determine which responses are which.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2023, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
48,538 posts, read 22,590,974 times
Reputation: 31579
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well they don't do that anymore and now the tests are all multiple choice..not fill in the blanks.
Gives the kids a 25% chance of guessing the right answer.
The Regents tests when I took them were also multiple choice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2023, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
696 posts, read 400,119 times
Reputation: 1242
The SAT also has a fifth choice on each question to my knowledge, which reduces the chances of simply guessing the right answer. Still, it doesn’t eliminate the problem that the correct answer can still be guessed with little to no understanding of the topic at hand. The only viable way I can see that changing is by switching to fill in the blank testing, as stated before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2023, 04:53 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
37,120 posts, read 14,665,393 times
Reputation: 31633
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
The Regents tests when I took them were also multiple choice.
But not 100% multiple choice. There were fill in the blank questions.

NYS still has old regents digitized so you can look them up.


https://nysl.nysed.gov/regentsexams.htm
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2023, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
696 posts, read 400,119 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
If the test tests what should be taught, then teaching to the test makes some sense...with limits.

But I think back to the 1960s when I was a high school student taking Regents exams in NYS. Some of the teachers would spend more than a month doing almost nothing beyond having us take old Regents exams (you could buy paperback books with the old tests) and then going over them. Such a waste.
It does, just like if you take a computerized training module at any other job, you would be tested on what the module contained. I don’t understand why K12 would be any different in that sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2023, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
48,538 posts, read 22,590,974 times
Reputation: 31579
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
But not 100% multiple choice. There were fill in the blank questions.

NYS still has old regents digitized so you can look them up.


https://nysl.nysed.gov/regentsexams.htm
Those appear to be all relatively recent. I am talking 1960s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2023, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
48,538 posts, read 22,590,974 times
Reputation: 31579
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
It does, just like if you take a computerized training module at any other job, you would be tested on what the module contained. I don’t understand why K12 would be any different in that sense.
What I'm saying is:
1. Presume a valid curriculum
2. Base the test questions on that curriculm
3. Therefore, teach to the test, and you have covered the curriculum.

When it doesn't work right is when a teacher just takes old tests and teaches the answers to the old questions. I've seen this done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2023, 06:18 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
37,120 posts, read 14,665,393 times
Reputation: 31633
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Those appear to be all relatively recent. I am talking 1960s.
Digitized versions of the Math tests on that site go back to the 1940's..which had no multiple choice questions at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2023, 09:46 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 8,246,239 times
Reputation: 32981
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What I'm saying is:
1. Presume a valid curriculum
2. Base the test questions on that curriculm
3. Therefore, teach to the test, and you have covered the curriculum.

When it doesn't work right is when a teacher just takes old tests and teaches the answers to the old questions. I've seen this done.
I think where a lot of the criticism comes from is getting the first two reversed.

1. Presume a test.
2. Base the curriculum on the test.
3. Teach the test.
4. Grades go up.
5. Everyone happy. Test companies make money. Curriculum publishers make money. Politicians happy. School administrators get to keep their jobs.

The part ignored -- everything that wasn't on the test.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top