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Old 09-27-2023, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,074 posts, read 24,578,993 times
Reputation: 33100

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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
The first one was drawn on the wrong account, if I remember the blue one instead of the brown one that was to be used for that pay period. The last one was because the person who was supposed to authorize the disbursements forgot to do it before going on vacation. The next week the same thing happened with health insurance for retirees.

I had probably one or two paychecks bounce every year in my thirty plus years there.
All the work of the taxpayers.
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Old 09-27-2023, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,638 posts, read 2,785,124 times
Reputation: 13329
Well, it's world class funding when your annual property tax bill comes due, but by the time it gets drawn from for the Taj Mahal of football stadiums, the ever-increasing layers of administrators, the ever-increasing number of "experts" just out of college sent to use up Staff Development days by telling 60-year-old teachers how to do their jobs, the rosewood furniture for the superintendent's house, the extra jobs for all the superintendent's friends and relations, and the endless boxes of new useless curriculum materials that the teachers have to find room to stash out of the way just like the previous year's boxes that this year's boxes are supposed to replace, like last year's boxes were supposed to replace the year before's etc., etc., etc. (no the fact that the curriculum company's owned by the assistant superintendent's sister in law has NOTHING to do with it...) yeah, by that point the teachers are having to buy their own copy paper and toner and hang a wet washrag over the thermostat in winter to get the heat to turn on.

'Tain't the amount of money going in; it's the amount of money wasted.
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Old 09-27-2023, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,638 posts, read 2,785,124 times
Reputation: 13329
You want more teachers?

1) Restore discipline to the class room. If a teacher tells the office a kid's misbehaving, believe the teacher. Don't just send the kid back and scold the teacher.

2) Allow grouping so all the kids reading five levels below grade level aren't in with the ones that are above grade level, so something can get done.

3) Remove the droolers, screamers and fighters and deal with them separately.

4) Cut the paperwork. The idea that with 40 kids in a room you can record an individual grade for each student every single day is insane.

5) Stop the practice of punitive transfers.

You won't get the numbers of teachers you need by increasing the money. Sure, a few people will be attracted by the money, and they'll get their certificates, stick it out a year or two and say to hell with this, my life and sanity aren't worth the money. You need to improve the working conditions. I see no evidence of this happening. All I see is an acceleration of the "blame the teachers" strategy. Is it any wonder that these hopeful enthusiastic young teachers, put in an impossible situation and told that anything that goes wrong is their fault even though they're given no tools to make anything better, quit in droves? The idea that every teacher must be a 90th percentile mixture of Mother Teresa, a Marine drill sergeant, and Mr. Holland, willing to spend 90 hours a week on paperwork and after-school activities, is pretty much guaranteed to ensure a shortage. What is needed is a system where ordinary school teachers who have lives outside work and are somewhat interested in the job, can succeed.

Dr. Deming had it right some 75 years ago when he pointed out that quality problems are the problems of the system, not individual employees. Yet all we see is a constant harping on either the inadequacies of teachers, or the need to spend more money on technological solutions that won't do anything because the problem isn't a technological problem.
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Old 09-27-2023, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,074 posts, read 24,578,993 times
Reputation: 33100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
Well, it's world class funding when your annual property tax bill comes due, but by the time it gets drawn from for the Taj Mahal of football stadiums, the ever-increasing layers of administrators, the ever-increasing number of "experts" just out of college sent to use up Staff Development days by telling 60-year-old teachers how to do their jobs, the rosewood furniture for the superintendent's house, the extra jobs for all the superintendent's friends and relations, and the endless boxes of new useless curriculum materials that the teachers have to find room to stash out of the way just like the previous year's boxes that this year's boxes are supposed to replace, like last year's boxes were supposed to replace the year before's etc., etc., etc. (no the fact that the curriculum company's owned by the assistant superintendent's sister in law has NOTHING to do with it...) yeah, by that point the teachers are having to buy their own copy paper and toner and hang a wet washrag over the thermostat in winter to get the heat to turn on.

'Tain't the amount of money going in; it's the amount of money wasted.
Which is also true for pretty much any corporation in America.
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Old 09-27-2023, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,074 posts, read 24,578,993 times
Reputation: 33100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
You want more teachers?

1) Restore discipline to the class room. If a teacher tells the office a kid's misbehaving, believe the teacher. Don't just send the kid back and scold the teacher.

2) Allow grouping so all the kids reading five levels below grade level aren't in with the ones that are above grade level, so something can get done.

3) Remove the droolers, screamers and fighters and deal with them separately.

4) Cut the paperwork. The idea that with 40 kids in a room you can record an individual grade for each student every single day is insane.

5) Stop the practice of punitive transfers.

You won't get the numbers of teachers you need by increasing the money. Sure, a few people will be attracted by the money, and they'll get their certificates, stick it out a year or two and say to hell with this, my life and sanity aren't worth the money. You need to improve the working conditions. I see no evidence of this happening. All I see is an acceleration of the "blame the teachers" strategy. Is it any wonder that these hopeful enthusiastic young teachers, put in an impossible situation and told that anything that goes wrong is their fault even though they're given no tools to make anything better, quit in droves? The idea that every teacher must be a 90th percentile mixture of Mother Teresa, a Marine drill sergeant, and Mr. Holland, willing to spend 90 hours a week on paperwork and after-school activities, is pretty much guaranteed to ensure a shortage. What is needed is a system where ordinary school teachers who have lives outside work and are somewhat interested in the job, can succeed.

Dr. Deming had it right some 75 years ago when he pointed out that quality problems are the problems of the system, not individual employees. Yet all we see is a constant harping on either the inadequacies of teachers, or the need to spend more money on technological solutions that won't do anything because the problem isn't a technological problem.
1. Okay. But teachers aren't always right. And sometimes we administrators protect teachers from lawsuits.

2. I fully agree to a reasonable degree of grouping. As a teacher, I was always satisified with average, above average, and below average. And while I think some SPED kids can be mainstreamed, I think it is overdone. Depends on why they are SPED and how

3. There are students who should be placed in "special centers".

4. There shouldn't be 40 kids in a classroom to begin with. 25 or so. No more. And teachers shouldn't have to turn in lesson plans unless they are judged as being deficient. Nor should they have to follow a curriculum lock step where they have to be on a particular lesson on a particular day.

5. You'd have to describe what a punitive transfer is for me to comment on that.

The root of all our real school problems is with the parents and taxpayers. All.
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Old 09-27-2023, 12:17 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,801 posts, read 58,331,069 times
Reputation: 46311
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. Okay. But teachers aren't always right. And sometimes we administrators protect teachers from lawsuits.
...

The root of all our real school problems is with the parents and taxpayers. All.
Perfect!

That's SO 'OBJECTIVE'

and most certainly true

And expected (without a doubt)

Sounds like a 'crash (Quick) course' in Analytic Troubleshooting. K-T would be proud. (1970's?) Actually I see it started in 1958...
https://kepner-tregoe.com/training/a...oubleshooting/
https://kepner-tregoe.com/about/who-we-are/?history

As a career trouble shooter, we very well better have the analytic criteria and diligence before we spouted off any 'excuse' / reason / solution. or... we kept quiet until we positively KNEW (and could prove "root cause' . (Condition of employment for 47 yrs)

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 09-27-2023 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 09-27-2023, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,074 posts, read 24,578,993 times
Reputation: 33100
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Perfect!

That's SO 'OBJECTIVE'

and most certainly true

And expected (without a doubt)

Sounds like a 'crash (Quick) course' in Analytic Troubleshooting. K-T would be proud. (1970's?) Actually I see it started in 1958...
https://kepner-tregoe.com/training/a...oubleshooting/
https://kepner-tregoe.com/about/who-we-are/?history

As a career trouble shooter, we very well better have the analytic criteria and diligence before we spouted off any 'excuse' / reason / solution. or... we kept quiet until we positively KNEW (and could prove "root cause' . (Condition of employment for 47 yrs)
Hey, it's just as fair as you folks blaming the 'education system'.
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Old 09-27-2023, 01:39 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,133 posts, read 16,227,614 times
Reputation: 28379
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. Okay. But teachers aren't always right. And sometimes we administrators protect teachers from lawsuits.

2. I fully agree to a reasonable degree of grouping. As a teacher, I was always satisified with average, above average, and below average. And while I think some SPED kids can be mainstreamed, I think it is overdone. Depends on why they are SPED and how

3. There are students who should be placed in "special centers".

4. There shouldn't be 40 kids in a classroom to begin with. 25 or so. No more. And teachers shouldn't have to turn in lesson plans unless they are judged as being deficient. Nor should they have to follow a curriculum lock step where they have to be on a particular lesson on a particular day.

5. You'd have to describe what a punitive transfer is for me to comment on that.
Spot on.
Quote:
The root of all our real school problems is with the parents and taxpayers. All.
I wouldn’t go that far, we have helped create part of this monster. But, yes, the most glaring issue right now - the out-of-control behavior - belongs primarily to parents.
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Old 09-27-2023, 02:08 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,801 posts, read 58,331,069 times
Reputation: 46311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Spot on.

I wouldn’t go that far, we have helped create part of this monster. But, yes, the most glaring issue right now - the out-of-control behavior - belongs primarily to parents.
and misbehaved society, politicians, government, (and) profs and teachers and self

The GLARING issues are very different for an 'outside' / business perspective (I still work with and volunteer each week in PS).

and.... it's very obvious (and substantiated here)
And very simple to FIX.

But... it will HURT and require someone take responsibility and control. (= the end of endless excuses)
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Old 09-27-2023, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,074 posts, read 24,578,993 times
Reputation: 33100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Spot on.

I wouldn’t go that far, we have helped create part of this monster. But, yes, the most glaring issue right now - the out-of-control behavior - belongs primarily to parents.
Thank you.

I was intentionally overstating it in order to point out this 'blame every established educator' attitude that some of our posters have -- amateurs -- is unfair and unreasonable.
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