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Old 09-15-2023, 06:50 PM
 
12,552 posts, read 8,767,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
Schools across the country can’t find teachers because of the low pay and awful working conditions. Even if they increased the pay, most would rather work for less pay and have peace of mind instead, so I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
It's so interesting how that varies around the country. The local district here doesn't have a recruiting problem; there are more people who want to teach in the district than positions and turnover is relatively low. Couple of districts over and turnover is much higher.
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Old 09-15-2023, 07:06 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,793 posts, read 59,706,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's so interesting how that varies around the country. The local district here doesn't have a recruiting problem; there are more people who want to teach in the district than positions and turnover is relatively low. Couple of districts over and turnover is much higher.
My home school system here in Maryland (as opposed to where I taught) used to have 15 or 20 applications for every opening.

This year they didn't get enough to cover the slots. That's a recent development.
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Old 09-16-2023, 01:12 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,980,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's so interesting how that varies around the country. The local district here doesn't have a recruiting problem; there are more people who want to teach in the district than positions and turnover is relatively low. Couple of districts over and turnover is much higher.
My home school system here in Maryland (as opposed to where I taught) used to have 15 or 20 applications for every opening.

This year they didn't get enough to cover the slots. That's a recent development.
The districts around here used to never have trouble. When I previously worked here 15 years ago there were generally between 200 to 300 applications for every elementary vacancy. We rarely even had vacancies or special ed. The only vacancies we considered difficult to fill were generally the science ones, but even those we’d have between 10 to 15 qualified people to choose from. Now we find ourselves filling elementary positions with unqualified people willing to take a class or two in the evening or placing long term subs in there. Additionally, in the past, once we hired someone they stayed. Now we say a little prayer that they’ll make it through the year.

That said, it is still doing much better than our huge school system up the street. The school systems that are not having trouble keeping teachers are those located in communities with old-fashioned values that include the expectation that students should be respectful to adults and where teachers are treated as part of the community family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
Schools across the country can’t find teachers because of the low pay and awful working conditions. Even if they increased the pay, most would rather work for less pay and have peace of mind instead, so I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Pay is not going to fix it. We have a cultural problem in our nation right now that has created students that not only unprepared to learn but are also difficult to manage and teaching has literally become a physically dangerous job on top on top of being stressful. The number of students entering college willing to major in education has plummeted, and why wouldn’t it? Not only do you learn earn less money than other professions requiring the same education but you get no respect from parents, students, society, or your employers.

Public education is not sustainable on it’s current trajectory. And again, it’s no longer the pay.
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Old 09-16-2023, 02:03 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Public education is not sustainable on it’s current trajectory. And again, it’s no longer the pay.
Thus is the case in the USA.

Fortunately, employers have worldwide access.
But... places like NZ and Australia are getting first pick of applicants. It's a quality of life thing.

Spent 6 weeks with EU teachers on 'Holiday'. They have their own struggles, but value their time off, and take Long Breaks as often as possible.
They do not appear to have the caustic social environment in their school
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Old 09-16-2023, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
768 posts, read 447,345 times
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Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Raise teacher pay by 20k per year and watch the magic happen. Teacher recruitment will turn around in a heartbeat after that, I guarantee it.
My experience is that most would rather work a job they like with less pay rather than come into a living hell every morning for more pay.
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Old 09-17-2023, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's so interesting how that varies around the country. The local district here doesn't have a recruiting problem; there are more people who want to teach in the district than positions and turnover is relatively low. Couple of districts over and turnover is much higher.
The districts in my area used to get 100 apps for every position. It started to get less circa 2017-18, but in 2020 it ground to a complete halt and reversed. Now they are lucky to get any applicants at all.

Education in general suffers from this. I work for a college and it's similar. It took us three searches over two years to hire two new science professors. We went over a year not able to offer some key science courses.

It's the money. The problems with bureacratic frustration, public respect, and student discipline have been there for years or decades. People put up with it. What else has changed? Housing has doubled in 5 years, salaries have not even come close.

10 years ago, a teaching salary was actually pretty good relatively speaking. I was able to buy a modest house no money down in 2014, that was actually a bit cheaper than my apartment rent.
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Old 09-17-2023, 10:23 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,540 posts, read 17,069,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
The districts in my area used to get 100 apps for every position. It started to get less circa 2017-18, but in 2020 it ground to a complete halt and reversed. Now they are lucky to get any applicants at all.

Education in general suffers from this. I work for a college and it's similar. It took us three searches over two years to hire two new science professors. We went over a year not able to offer some key science courses.

It's the money. The problems with bureacratic frustration, public respect, and student discipline have been there for years or decades. People put up with it. What else has changed? Housing has doubled in 5 years, salaries have not even come close.

10 years ago, a teaching salary was actually pretty good relatively speaking. I was able to buy a modest house no money down in 2014, that was actually a bit cheaper than my apartment rent.
It may be all about the money at the college level but for K-12 there's a lot more involved than just money.
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Old 09-17-2023, 10:27 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,793 posts, read 59,706,095 times
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Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
It may be all about the money at the college level but for K-12 there's a lot more involved than just money.
Yes and no.

I've related the story previously about the BusEd teacher we hired and within two weeks he was complaining about the salary (he hired in with a MS, so not even Step 1) and questioning why he hadn't been tapped yet for Admin training.

He lasted until April.
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Old 09-17-2023, 10:30 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,540 posts, read 17,069,919 times
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Yes and no.

I've related the story previously about the BusEd teacher we hired and within two weeks he was complaining about the salary (he hired in with a MS, so not even Step 1) and questioning why he hadn't been tapped yet for Admin training.

He lasted until April.
LOL..tried to get out of the classroom as soon as he got hired as a classroom teacher eh ?
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Old 09-17-2023, 10:51 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,793 posts, read 59,706,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
LOL..tried to get out of the classroom as soon as he got hired as a classroom teacher eh ?
That started to be a trend my last 8 or 10 years (2005-2015), first year teachers would start lobbying to be selected for Admin shortly after starting in the classroom.

We had one guy (3rd year teacher on his 3rd school. He was a graduate of the school and I'd taught him in a couple classes) who was constantly yammering about being wasted in the classroom.

He finally got caught doing a Freddie Corleone banging cocktail waitresses two at a time except with Senior girls. That got ugly when it broke. He got kicked over to a middle school as a Peer Mediator for the balance of the year and washed up the next year as a VP trainee at night school.

Last edited by North Beach Person; 09-17-2023 at 11:01 AM..
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