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Old 09-17-2023, 11:23 AM
 
21,608 posts, read 9,208,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
WE did that during Covid. How'd that work out?
It's just another way for the Dept of Education to funnel HUGE amounts of tax dollars to projects that they claim will solve everything. Been there, done that.
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Old 09-17-2023, 11:25 AM
 
21,608 posts, read 9,208,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Beat me to it.

Honestly, my fear is that we are going to go to this model more and more - out of necessity rather than choice. Enrollment in college education programs continue to decrease at an alarming rate. Students have caught the message, being a teacher is a thankless job with low pay in comparison to other professions so they aren’t majoring in education. We have districts around here where almost 100% of their new hires were some form alt certification from “grow your own” former aides to whatever warm body with a high school diploma that showed up. Teachers quitting mid-year, once practically unheard of, now is no longer even a surprise and you just hope they give you some kind of notice.

When I think of all the decent teachers through the years that were tossed away without a second thought for incredibly petty reasons by some principals and look how desperate we are just to get someone who might work out I get a little ill.

One of the first reforms that might help stop this trend is getting rid of all the excess people in Central Offices. Not only are they sucking up all the money that should’ve been going to raises for teachers in the classroom, but the good ideals, nifty programs, mandatory reports and onerous assessments they dream up to justify their jobs which end up creating mounds of extra work for classroom teachers are large part of excessive stress that is creating the exodus from the classroom.

It is highly ironic that federal laws such as No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top, which were made in an effort to “improve” education by holding “bad teachers” accountable, have in actuality been instrumental in leading to a lowering of teacher quality.
If you only knew. Not only are they trying to do 'virtual or remote learning', the are now opening virtual REALITY schools. The wife of a very prominent Congressman is instrumental in this and some locals say it's so they can line their pockets opening them across the country. I sat next to her mother at an event and she described the model to me and honestly, I was horrified.
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Old 09-17-2023, 11:33 AM
 
21,608 posts, read 9,208,537 times
Reputation: 19100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
I just Googled "social worker salary NYC" and got $46k-$86k on Indeed-dot-com. When you can show me that teaching requires more education and is physically or mentally harder than being a social worker, then I'll play a sad song on my violin for you. I am simply not impressed by 22 year old girls making a $65k starting salary anywhere and crying poverty, when their counterparts in other professions are making way less.
AND they work all year long.
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Old 09-17-2023, 11:35 AM
 
21,608 posts, read 9,208,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Of course as the old cigarette commercial on TV said: "It's not how long you make it, it's how you make it long!" I've seen people in my field generate more value in 20 minutes than many drone workers do all day long.

And my grade school teachers, for the most part, were drones. I had a handful who actually benefited me, but most were very much like the teacher on Charlie Brown cartoons: "Mwah blah blah mwah". I was in the 4th grade before I got my first decent teacher. The first 3 years were a total waste of time, nothing was presented that I didn't already know.

Of course this was the rural South, so maybe in other places it was done better.

In America, a few people go into teaching with noble intentions. But I think the bulk of public school teachers firstly chose a major in college where they would not be stressed and could have plenty of time for partying after study, and went on to a low-stress, if not particularly prestigious or well paying job. Sort of like the image of working at the Post Office.
That's why my half sister did it.
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Old 09-17-2023, 11:36 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,711 posts, read 17,276,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
If you only knew. Not only are they trying to do 'virtual or remote learning', the are now opening virtual REALITY schools. The wife of a very prominent Congressman is instrumental in this and some locals say it's so they can line their pockets opening them across the country. I sat next to her mother at an event and she described the model to me and honestly, I was horrified.

So if your avatar graduates that equates to real life ?
Have ChatGP bot your avatar and you don't even have to be in front of the computer now.
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Old 09-17-2023, 11:43 AM
 
21,608 posts, read 9,208,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
The districts around here used to never have trouble. When I previously worked here 15 years ago there were generally between 200 to 300 applications for every elementary vacancy. We rarely even had vacancies or special ed. The only vacancies we considered difficult to fill were generally the science ones, but even those we’d have between 10 to 15 qualified people to choose from. Now we find ourselves filling elementary positions with unqualified people willing to take a class or two in the evening or placing long term subs in there. Additionally, in the past, once we hired someone they stayed. Now we say a little prayer that they’ll make it through the year.

That said, it is still doing much better than our huge school system up the street. The school systems that are not having trouble keeping teachers are those located in communities with old-fashioned values that include the expectation that students should be respectful to adults and where teachers are treated as part of the community family.


Pay is not going to fix it. We have a cultural problem in our nation right now that has created students that not only unprepared to learn but are also difficult to manage and teaching has literally become a physically dangerous job on top on top of being stressful. The number of students entering college willing to major in education has plummeted, and why wouldn’t it? Not only do you learn earn less money than other professions requiring the same education but you get no respect from parents, students, society, or your employers.

Public education is not sustainable on it’s current trajectory. And again, it’s no longer the pay.
Agree 100%. Saw an article recently on Yahoo about education. The comments were more interesting than the article. It as NOT they pay the teachers were complaining about. Lack of discipline was the most common complaint.
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Old 09-17-2023, 12:46 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 3,496,276 times
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An interesting open letter from a Las Vegas public school teacher. The local school district - Clark County - is a very large district with over 15,000 teachers and is supposedly the 5th largest in the US, and the teacher's contract expired quite some time ago. The district and the teacher's trade union are far apart insofar as contract negotiations are concerned.

The interesting thing is the author says money is not her issue; teaching conditions are her issue: overcrowded classrooms, mandatory no-student-can-be-failed/downgraded for failure to attend/do schoolwork/perform poorly, lack of resources to implement proven teaching techniques and the like.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinio...acher-2905877/

"I am a teacher with a capital T. Money is nice, but no amount of money will get me back in the classroom under the current teaching conditions."
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Old 09-17-2023, 12:50 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,888 posts, read 59,882,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
An interesting open letter from a Las Vegas public school teacher. The local school district - Clark County - is a very large district with over 15,000 teachers and is supposedly the 5th largest in the US, and the teacher's contract expired quite some time ago. The district and the teacher's trade union are far apart insofar as contract negotiations are concerned.

The interesting thing is the author says money is not her issue; teaching conditions are her issue: overcrowded classrooms, mandatory no-student-can-be-failed/downgraded for failure to attend/do schoolwork/perform poorly, lack of resources to implement proven teaching techniques and the like.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinio...acher-2905877/

"I am a teacher with a capital T. Money is nice, but no amount of money will get me back in the classroom under the current teaching conditions."
Here in Maryland the State Board of Education removed working conditions as an allowed subject of negotiation years ago.
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Old 09-17-2023, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,004 posts, read 7,143,334 times
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Working conditions when it comes to teaching mainly have to do with discipline and class size. These things can be easily fixed if there's the will. Of course, you can't reduce class size if you can't recruit teachers because you're not paying enough money.
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Old 09-17-2023, 02:24 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 16,018,813 times
Reputation: 28265
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Working conditions when it comes to teaching mainly have to do with discipline and class size. These things can be easily fixed if there's the will. Of course, you can't reduce class size if you can't recruit teachers because you're not paying enough money.
The class size would be easy to fix with money, the discipline is not. Even so, with the class size issue what you are not getting is the critical problem created by large class sizes is how it impacts discipline, not just the size itself. Grading extra papers is annoying which can be soothed somewhat by more money. An out of control class can’t.

Teaching public K-12 has literally become a physically dangerous job. Our district did not have one single school last year that did not have a teacher assaulted by a student, and most had multiple cases. Those assaults included everything from the now expected being spit on, kicked, bit, or slapped to having furniture thrown at them or even being shoved to the ground and hit multiple times by three students. Both the kids and the teachers have PTSD from some of these events but they are supposed to continue their day like nothing happened. Parents of these kids tend to react by either shrugging their shoulders and basically saying “good luck, don’t know what you’re going to do” or by accusing the teacher of picking on their precious angel. Some of the most violent ones you can literally do nothing to as they are on an IEP or 504. Money can not fix this, it needs policy changes starting with reevaluating “least restrictive environment” and “free APPROPRIATE education” or at the very least, extending those rights to every child.
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