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Old 11-23-2023, 07:30 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,653 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34150

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I know you won't like this, but when your son decided to fight back...instead of seeking help from one of dozens of adults in the school...it changed from an attack to a fight. That's what a fight is.

I know it's tempting to say "fight back" and "defend yourself". But I've seen a few, and heard of more, really serious injuries (and even one death) in the kind of situation you describe. All it takes is one student falling and hitting his head on a desk or a water fountain, or just the hard floor to have a brain injury (as one example). I'm sorry, but "we" can't allow fights in schools. Why didn't you press charges against the other kid and his family?
FWIW I was fully aware of the zero tolerance rule and "use your words".
I didn't object to the 2 day suspension. That was the consequence of zero tolerance even if you were the victim.
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Old 11-23-2023, 09:21 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,653 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34150
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
If that happened to my kid, I would look into filing a grievance.

Your kid should not get suspended from school for defending himself from someone who physically attacked him.

This is exactly why we need cameras in schools.
Schools have zero tolerance. It was a rule intentionally broke knowing what the consequences would be.
I taught my son to defend himself and not rely on other people to do it for him.

I let the Principal know of my stance as well. It is what it is.
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Old 11-23-2023, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,122 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32521
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
FWIW I was fully aware of the zero tolerance rule and "use your words".
I didn't object to the 2 day suspension. That was the consequence of zero tolerance even if you were the victim.
No, that's really not what it is. It's about saying to the school body that we don't allow fighting in this school. That there are alternatives. And, frankly, it's where your goals as a parent may have to be different than our goals as a school. Sometimes those goals don't match.
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Old 11-23-2023, 10:37 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,653 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34150
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No, that's really not what it is. It's about saying to the school body that we don't allow fighting in this school. That there are alternatives. And, frankly, it's where your goals as a parent may have to be different than our goals as a school. Sometimes those goals don't match.
In my case it was their Zero Tolerance rule. The Principal thought I was going to object to his suspension and was all prepared with a handout for me

https://www.nassp.org/publication/pr...ero-tolerance/
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Old 11-23-2023, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,122 posts, read 23,785,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
In my case it was their Zero Tolerance rule. The Principal thought I was going to object to his suspension and was all prepared with a handout for me

https://www.nassp.org/publication/pr...ero-tolerance/
Okay. We didn't have a zero tolerance policy toward it, and I might very have suspended the initial aggressor out of school for 3 days and your son in-school for a day or two...based on what you have described.

But my point here is that a parent's "goal" (for wont of a better term) and a school's goals are sometimes not the same, and legitimately so.
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Old 11-23-2023, 10:45 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,653 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34150
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Okay. We didn't have a zero tolerance policy toward it, and I might very have suspended the initial aggressor out of school for 3 days and your son in-school for a day or two...based on what you have described.

But my point here is that a parent's "goal" (for wont of a better term) and a school's goals are sometimes not the same, and legitimately so.
Legitimate at the time. The original intent of Zero Policy was about drugs, gangs and guns.

But some schools took it too far...remember the Pop Tart kid ?
He got suspended for chewing his pop tart into a shape of a gun.

Now if that were my son..yes I would object.

Studies years later showed that Zero Tolerance did not reduce drugs, gangs and guns in schools.
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Old 11-23-2023, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,122 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32521
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Legitimate at the time. The original intent of Zero Policy was about drugs, gangs and guns.

But some schools took it too far...remember the Pop Tart kid ?
He got suspended for chewing his pop tart into a shape of a gun.

Now if that were my son..yes I would object.

Studies years later showed that Zero Tolerance did not reduce drugs, gangs and guns in schools.
Fine...but I have not endorsed zero tolerance programs. Quite the opposite.
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Old 11-23-2023, 12:31 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,217 posts, read 28,295,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Studies years later showed that Zero Tolerance did not reduce drugs, gangs and guns in schools.
It is well known that people do not stop committing crimes or breaking laws even when they are caught or punished by the law.

They often continue committing crimes and breaking laws because that is inherently the way they are.

They cannot help themselves.
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Old 11-23-2023, 10:19 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,653 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34150
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It is well known that people do not stop committing crimes or breaking laws even when they are caught or punished by the law.

They often continue committing crimes and breaking laws because that is inherently the way they are.

They cannot help themselves.
Schools allowed the cell phones

Now it's beyond out of hand.

But they let that genie out of the bottle and now have to live with it.
IMHO cellphones should have been banned in k-12 from Day 1
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Old 11-24-2023, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,122 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32521
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Schools allowed the cell phones

Now it's beyond out of hand.

But they let that genie out of the bottle and now have to live with it.
IMHO cellphones should have been banned in k-12 from Day 1
Yes, because the PARENTS (at least in my school) were RELENTLESS about it.
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