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Old 11-26-2023, 10:03 AM
 
21,884 posts, read 12,981,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
One thing that's forgotten, and I've mentioned it a couple times in this thread (and I fought the cell phone wars for years) is that schools now expect the kids to use the calculator on their phones so the school doesn't have to supply them.
Oh, wow; that's a huge, insurmountable problem! Parents buy school supplies every year; add a calculator to the list. The Dollar Tree sells calculators for a dollar (now $1.25, alas). Excuses!
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Old 11-26-2023, 10:08 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,420 posts, read 60,608,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
Oh, wow; that's a huge, insurmountable problem! Parents buy school supplies every year; add a calculator to the list. The Dollar Tree sells calculators for a dollar (now $1.25, alas). Excuses!
Technically the school can't "force" the students to buy anything. That's why Math classes and some Science ones, got class sets of calculators.

Now, if a group of parents would get together and refuse to get school supplies who do you think would end up having to? Hint: not the school.
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Old 11-26-2023, 10:10 AM
 
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It wouldn't be the first time, and they're even cheaper wholesale.

Again...excuses.

I'm sure the phone-addicted can come up with them all day long!
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Old 11-26-2023, 10:14 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,420 posts, read 60,608,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
It wouldn't be the first time, and they're even cheaper wholesale.

Again...excuses.

I'm sure the phone-addicted can come up with them all day long!
Excuses for what? I'm telling you the realities, many of which are embodied in school system policies.

Go to a school, maybe sub for a couple days, and try to enforce some rules and see what happens.
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Old 11-26-2023, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
579 posts, read 368,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'm going to tell you a little story...a true story. One month when we were having our monthly middle school principal's meeting (there were 24 of us), one of the principals announced she was going to institute a new rule in her school -- no student was allowed to touch another student...the purpose of which was to eliminate any hint of bullying and physical harassment. No shaking hands, no high fives, no hugging, no arm punches in fun...no touching period. No exceptions. I spoke up and said that I was willing to bet that principal $100 that she would be on the front page of Metro section of the big city newspaper within a week of instituting the rule, that the press coverage and public reaction would be brutal, and that she'd be forced to rescind the rule. They all laughed (although none of them took the bet). Less than a week later, there she was on the front page of the Metro section, being lambasted. And, indeed, on orders from the district, she was forced to rescind the rule. She later admitted it was hell.

It's sort of the concept of "consent of the governed".

Guns and knives are different. In many localities they're literally illegal. Smart phones aren't illegal. Few people actually carry guns and knives. Most people use a smart phone. And the governed are not going to consent without a knock down drag out fight over it. And ultimately, they'll win.
"consent of the governed" refers to adults, not kids.

Equating a high-five or fist-bump with using a phone in class to play games is preposterous.
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Old 11-26-2023, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
6,915 posts, read 3,954,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Not having cell phones though is recent history...within the last 20 years.
I got my first cell phone in 1995.
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Old 11-26-2023, 03:44 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,128 posts, read 18,290,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContraPagan View Post
I got my first cell phone in 1995.
Flip phone or actual smart phone? I had one also in 1995 but they weren't allowed in the schools until a bit later
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Old 11-26-2023, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Gil View Post
"consent of the governed" refers to adults, not kids.

Equating a high-five or fist-bump with using a phone in class to play games is preposterous.
First of all, when I was talking about "consent of the governed", I was relating that to needing the support of (or lacking the support of) the parent community.

But in a sense it applies to students, as well. Take my old school. 80 adults versus 1,000 students. Think about it. Also, think about who is really in control in inner city schools.

But please, do keep smacking your head.
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Old 11-26-2023, 06:10 PM
 
4,386 posts, read 4,239,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
First of all, when I was talking about "consent of the governed", I was relating that to needing the support of (or lacking the support of) the parent community.

But in a sense it applies to students, as well. Take my old school. 80 adults versus 1,000 students. Think about it. Also, think about who is really in control in inner city schools.

But please, do keep smacking your head.
As someone who was relatively successful in an inner city school, I will tell you that no teacher can truly teach without the consent of the students. Part of the psychology of motivating my students was to acknowledge that reality and thank them explicitly for letting me be their teacher. Most often, they would immediately thank me for being their teacher.

As far as cell phone policies, it was one I was willing to get written up for ignoring. As one of the gatekeepers for our students' college ambitions, I was quite clear when I told them that I did not want them to sign for irrevocable student loans if their self-management skills were so poor that they could not stay off their phones in class.

I was one of the teachers who incorporated phones into the lessons, my rationale being that I was teaching my students to use the tools that are available to help them learn the content. In French, that meant using WordReference for our dictionary, and Google Translate for pronunciation. We had very entertaining lessons using Translate for actual translating, which it does surprisingly well in some cases and hilariously wrong in others. In French 3, students who were less proficient used it to understand me when I spoke French to them and to help them know what to say to me, because in third year, I suddenly lost the ability to speak English, sometimes for hours at a time.

In my opinion, it should be the responsibility of the student to manage him/herself, especially by high school. I would much rather they learn in high school that playing Fortnite in class will result in crashing and burning rather than once they have signed for student loans and their college GPA is at stake.
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Old 11-26-2023, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
As someone who was relatively successful in an inner city school, I will tell you that no teacher can truly teach without the consent of the students. Part of the psychology of motivating my students was to acknowledge that reality and thank them explicitly for letting me be their teacher. Most often, they would immediately thank me for being their teacher.

As far as cell phone policies, it was one I was willing to get written up for ignoring. As one of the gatekeepers for our students' college ambitions, I was quite clear when I told them that I did not want them to sign for irrevocable student loans if their self-management skills were so poor that they could not stay off their phones in class.

I was one of the teachers who incorporated phones into the lessons, my rationale being that I was teaching my students to use the tools that are available to help them learn the content. In French, that meant using WordReference for our dictionary, and Google Translate for pronunciation. We had very entertaining lessons using Translate for actual translating, which it does surprisingly well in some cases and hilariously wrong in others. In French 3, students who were less proficient used it to understand me when I spoke French to them and to help them know what to say to me, because in third year, I suddenly lost the ability to speak English, sometimes for hours at a time.

In my opinion, it should be the responsibility of the student to manage him/herself, especially by high school. I would much rather they learn in high school that playing Fortnite in class will result in crashing and burning rather than once they have signed for student loans and their college GPA is at stake.
Great and realistic post.
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