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Old 11-20-2023, 03:43 PM
 
1,412 posts, read 1,081,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'm an atheist. I generally don't support in school organized prayer. Some, kids/coaches/parents want to pray or be led in prayer before a football game, no big deal. If a domo wants to start the school day with prayer over the PA I've got a problem.


Many current DEI initiatives are most certainly social engineering efforts. Driving and selling the equity over merit ethos is unquestionably social engineering.
Equity vs Merit is a false dichotomy, I've never seen anything anti-merit in schools I have taught at.

 
Old 11-20-2023, 03:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Agreed so far.

Do I count? I don't want prayer in the schools. I don't want DEI. There are people who are eclectic and not ideological.

In general schools should teach, not indoctrinate.
Personally I have always seen it as my mission to give students the tools they need to decide these things for themselves the issue is that sometimes parents don't actually want that.
 
Old 11-20-2023, 03:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
First paragraph, I agree.

Bolded...perhaps. But if the right-of-center was in control of our schools systems, do we really think they wouldn't incorporate their brand of social engineering into our schools? To be honest, keeping things neutral is one of the challenges, as I learned from a very conservative college professor that I had; I thought I was taking a course on Public Educational Finance, but no, it turned out to be a course on Reagonomics...with no mention of schools and taught by a professor who had never worked in a school system.
That's my point. There is a lot of influencing that people accept, irs when the balance of power shifts and the influencing starts to move the other direction that people get upset.
 
Old 11-20-2023, 04:19 PM
 
12,831 posts, read 9,025,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDak15 View Post
This is such a tired argument. Do you have anything new?


Care to explain this "Social engineering?"
I gave an example and also where to look for further examples put out by the NEA and AFT. Nothing hidden there. This thread itself is full of examples. Once you've read the NEA and AFT agenda's and have questions, please ask them.

By the way, since this question has been answered several times in this and other threads, what do you, consider sufficient information to satisfy your question? So we don't have to cycle through this several times.
 
Old 11-20-2023, 04:25 PM
 
12,831 posts, read 9,025,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
Personally I have always seen it as my mission to give students the tools they need to decide these things for themselves the issue is that sometimes parents don't actually want that.
Are you saying that your mission is to insert your point of view between the children and their parents?

Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
That's my point. There is a lot of influencing that people accept, irs when the balance of power shifts and the influencing starts to move the other direction that people get upset.
Why should a teacher be influencing in any direction?
 
Old 11-20-2023, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Are you saying that your mission is to insert your point of view between the children and their parents?



Why should a teacher be influencing in any direction?
That is the least charitable reading of what I wrote that you could possibly have come up with. I am stating that sometimes when students are exposed to information they develop thoughts and feelings and that sometimes those thoughts and feelings may not align with that of their families. I am suggesting that this is normal and that it is not the teachers job to reinforce the "indoctrination" of their parents.

I think that this deserves a longer response especially question #2 but I don't currently have time to do it justice.
 
Old 11-20-2023, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,758 posts, read 24,253,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
Personally I have always seen it as my mission to give students the tools they need to decide these things for themselves the issue is that sometimes parents don't actually want that.
One year when I was teaching earth science, and we got to the earth history unit (which includes evolution), I told students from the beginning that they could believe whatever they wanted, but for this class they needed to learn the science. At the end of the unit they had to write an essay, and I gave them 2 choices: "Why I believe in evolution" OR "Why I don't believe in evolution". As long as they wrote an essay -- didn't matter what they put into it -- they got an A. That year I had several parents who came in and literally said, "I don't want my [son/daughter] to think". Literally.
 
Old 11-20-2023, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,758 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Are you saying that your mission is to insert your point of view between the children and their parents?



Why should a teacher be influencing in any direction?
I thought what he was saying was that he teaches kids critical thinking skills. Are you afraid of critical thinking?
 
Old 11-20-2023, 05:33 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,541 posts, read 28,625,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
One year when I was teaching earth science, and we got to the earth history unit (which includes evolution), I told students from the beginning that they could believe whatever they wanted, but for this class they needed to learn the science. At the end of the unit they had to write an essay, and I gave them 2 choices: "Why I believe in evolution" OR "Why I don't believe in evolution". As long as they wrote an essay -- didn't matter what they put into it -- they got an A. That year I had several parents who came in and literally said, "I don't want my [son/daughter] to think". Literally.
Religion doesn’t belong in science class.

Any suggestion otherwise is definitely messed up.
 
Old 11-20-2023, 06:10 PM
 
19,767 posts, read 18,050,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
Equity vs Merit is a false dichotomy, I've never seen anything anti-merit in schools I have taught at.
You weren't looking.

1. The NEA funding Fairtest.org's war on standardized tests is an example.
2. Test in and private high schools, colleges, graduate and professional schools giving preference to lesser students over better students per admissions is another.
3. Schools limiting G&T, honors and tacking are further examples.
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