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Old 11-28-2023, 02:31 PM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,075,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I think the difference is neither I, nor my kids, nor anyone I know experienced weedout that used criteria and excuses that you bring up. That's not weedout; that's simply a poor program.
But everybody I know with a STEM career, at various colleges, had to deal with that. Maybe I only know people from "poor programs".

Quote:
I don't support one vs the other; I support everyone having the opportunity to succeed or fail. The issue with girls and STEM isn't what you seem to be hung up on but on how fundamental classes were taught.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree, since I don't want to take this thread down that tangent, like so many other threads we get involved with are.

Quote:
It wasn't too long ago that girls were not allowed to take things like shop classes and boys weren't allowed to take HomeEc.
That was a very long time ago. Both genders have taken home ec and shop for as long as I've been alive. Trouble is, those classes should be useful, but they are completely useless since they focus on the wrong things. Shop focused on power tools that the average homeowner will never own, not things such as basic repairs around the house. Home ec focused on embroidering a pillow, rather than how to fix a button on your pants, and focused on cooking garbage, health nutty, vegan food that rabbits probably won't even eat, rather than food that people would actually eat. And we had an exercise where we had to choose who to hire at a men's clothing store, and all of the girls chose the tallest one and were saying he was hot (no pictures were given). The teacher said looks are not a factor, but then she said that the guy I chose was not good looking enough for the job (again, no pictures were given). No idea what that even had to do with home ec.

Quote:
That's no longer the problem today or this thread. The problem today is neither boys nor girls are being adequately prepared for STEM education.
Correct, and a big part of that is failed attempts to attract girls / women, at the expense of boys / men.

Quote:
Any teacher saying that isn't trying to encourage girls into STEM. Just like your question to your teacher earlier, all they know is style so that's what they grade.
That is very likely true, but instead of admitting they don't know the science, their line is either that they are preparing us for the real world, or that they are trying to target women.
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Old 11-28-2023, 02:53 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,076 posts, read 570,824 times
Reputation: 1625
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post

Again, it's not all or nothing. Probably best not to major in art history, but that also doesn't mean that there is only one major that leads to any money.
I think that depends on who you ask. Is it not the pervasive thought amongst many STEM majors that unless you major in something related to math and science, that it's not worth much out in the "real world"? I mean, I've lost count on how many brow-beating lectures I've read online about how any liberal arts or "soft" science majors are rent seeking or broke baristas or retail workers despite the obvious evidence to the contrary.

One of the things that has routinely turned me away from STEM is the constant gate keeping and sneering from many of those who are already in the field. Let's face it, all fields and professions have jerks like this. But STEM has some of the worst culprits of the "I'm very smart and I'm going to let everyone know it" attitudes. My wife taught a couple STEM subjects, and based on accounts of her colleagues, it seems like some of the common difficult traits of those she worked with were derived from the hubris and arrogance of those individuals.

Maybe it's the personalities drawn to it that turns other people away from it.
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Old 11-28-2023, 02:56 PM
 
28,713 posts, read 18,897,410 times
Reputation: 31024
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
It's sad if they force the kid into a profession he is not the bit interested in.
He's not being forced. He's already taking the easy way out by letting someone else pay for his education. He could go into the military or find some other way to pay for the major he wants.
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Old 11-28-2023, 02:58 PM
 
28,713 posts, read 18,897,410 times
Reputation: 31024
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
ult to do these little exploration projects to "find yourself" IMO.

I'll add that expecting to know what you want to do at 15-20 years old, especially if you're coming from a low income, blue collar family, is going to be incredibly difficult for anyone (though not impossible). All my early career dreams were fantasies with very little groundwork in place to achieve them. Since we were low income, this also meant we didn't go to the best schools. Not going to the best primary and secondary schools vastly limits your exposure to the world beyond low income career paths. I'm also in a field today that didn't exist when I was in high school, so how much of it will really be relevant unless they go into some traditional career like veterinarian, teacher, or accountant.
The more I see of Gen Z entering the work force, the more it appears they'd be ahead of their peers with any job that got them accustomed to the basic concept of 9-5.
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Old 11-28-2023, 03:06 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,439 posts, read 18,540,239 times
Reputation: 35198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The more I see of Gen Z entering the work force, the more it appears they'd be ahead of their peers with any job that got them accustomed to the basic concept of 9-5.
They are quite savvy but addicted to their cellphones and social media.
That may be their downfall.
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Old 11-28-2023, 03:07 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,076 posts, read 570,824 times
Reputation: 1625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The more I see of Gen Z entering the work force, the more it appears they'd be ahead of their peers with any job that got them accustomed to the basic concept of 9-5.
The dynamics of the workforce are changing. The work environment that a younger Gen-Zer will enter is likely going to look at lot different than what it looked like for me (an older Millennial) and anything that any Boomer or Xer could ever imagine. Flex schedules, remote work, hybrid scheduling, etc. will be far more prevalent in 10-15 years IMO. A 9-5 is a completely arbitrary, meaningless idea established by FLSA, when before that, it wasn't uncommon for people to be working 60+ hours per week. It is especially more meaningless these days as most knowledge-based jobs are classified as exempt.

I bet whatever the old time generation that lived during that time bleeped and moaned about Boomers not understanding good work etiquette then, too.

Last edited by digitalUID; 11-28-2023 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 11-28-2023, 03:08 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,076 posts, read 570,824 times
Reputation: 1625
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
addicted to their cellphones and social media.
So are Boomers...and Xers...and Millennials. Go out to any restaurant or bar or public outing and you'll see all ages buried in their screens.
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Old 11-28-2023, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,073 posts, read 24,571,497 times
Reputation: 33100
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
They are quite savvy but addicted to their cellphones and social media.
That may be their downfall.
Something we can agree on!
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Old 11-28-2023, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,073 posts, read 24,571,497 times
Reputation: 33100
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
So are Boomers...and Xers...and Millennials. Go out to any restaurant or bar or public outing and you'll see all ages buried in their screens.
True, but we're not in our formative years...which I think is the point.
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Old 11-28-2023, 03:32 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,722 posts, read 81,625,646 times
Reputation: 58064
It really depends on the area they are going into. I would expect the software developers, including gaming people to end up being replaced by AI, in fact the AI developers today help to eliminate their own jobs. Civil, structural, electrical and aeronautical engineers will always be needed, though less in times of depression when building stops, as in 2008. Probably the best area to get into for the future is medical research, but in the short term at least the biggest shortages are in the medical industry, doctors and nurses, both well paid. I hear more and more stories lately (including my wife) of waiting 5 months for a routine appointment, or being sent to another location for urgent imaging because they are booked up for weeks. That may settle down after the older people die off, but before long the millennials, now already the largest generation in population will become elderly (15-20 years).
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