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Old 11-28-2023, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,125 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32526

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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
This article has some good info on this:



https://www.openhealthpolicy.com/p/m...slots-congress
Okay, thank you. I didn't know that.
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,208 posts, read 2,411,711 times
Reputation: 12221
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Every few pages this point comes up, which is our middle school and high school system is not preparing students for what comes next, be it college or technical education. Do we, as a country, even acknowledge the problem and what do we do to fix it?
No, the problem is never acknowledged by the politicians and school system leaders who can only parrot the same old "free college for everyone!" mantra, even though actual teachers, parents, kids, and the general public all know of the many ways that theory has failed students and society.

Let's face it, politicians and school superintendents don't tend to be the sharpest knives in the drawer; and combine that with the need to pander to the most vocal activists and interest groups, and no one in public life is saying what we all say at the dinner table in the privacy of our own homes.
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Old 11-29-2023, 08:23 AM
 
Location: In your head
1,014 posts, read 513,333 times
Reputation: 1482
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
No, the problem is never acknowledged by the politicians and school system leaders who can only parrot the same old "free college for everyone!" mantra, even though actual teachers, parents, kids, and the general public all know of the many ways that theory has failed students and society.

Let's face it, politicians and school superintendents don't tend to be the sharpest knives in the drawer; and combine that with the need to pander to the most vocal activists and interest groups, and no one in public life is saying what we all say at the dinner table in the privacy of our own homes.
In your quote "free college for everyone!", replace the word college with the phrase job training. Once upon a time, this wasn't a far fetched idea.

Nobody should have to start out their adult life indebted up to their eyeballs to banks, colleges, or corporations to receive whatever sort of training they need to begin a profession that pays enough to live, have children, afford healthcare expenses, food, etc. My dad's company paid for his CDL in 1979 and he drove trucks locally for 45 years supporting a family of six on less than $50k/yr. By his early 20s, he had the ability to buy property and start a family. Call me an ideologue or radical, but this is the way it should be IMO.

In my professional experience, MOST administrative/operational jobs in corporate can be taught to anyone with moderate intelligence levels in 3-6 months (degree or no degree). However, today, a college degree is often used as a gatekeeping tool to help HR departments weed out candidates. This tells me there simply aren't enough corporate office jobs to be had, even by those with college degrees. Outside of the most common trades (plumbing, electrical, HVAC), there really aren't enough discussions about other career paths that exist. I used to work for a non-destructive testing company when I was in high school. If I hadn't been so hyper-focused on the prescribed college plan that was pushed on me, this could have been a fantastic career path for someone like me. Yet, if it wasn't for that experience, I would have no idea that NDT was even a thing. As a society, we're simply not talking about alternative pathways enough. Maybe secondary schools and companies should be holding more informational career fairs for students that discuss these options. In many parts of Europe, most students are placed on pathways based on interests and ability by this point in their schooling. Maybe we should be doing this in the U.S. Another massive problem in this country is that nobody wants to train anyone anymore; they want someone else to do it for them.

Last edited by digitalUID; 11-29-2023 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 11-29-2023, 09:03 AM
 
6,922 posts, read 6,979,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Again, it's not all or nothing. Probably best not to major in art history, but that also doesn't mean that there is only one major that leads to any money.
Quote:
Who is saying that?
There was a poster who said that he know somebody whose parents forced him into one single major, which he had zero interest in.
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Old 11-29-2023, 09:13 AM
 
Location: In your head
1,014 posts, read 513,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
There was a poster who said that he know somebody whose parents forced him into one single major, which he had zero interest in.
That's not at all uncommon.

A lot of people pursue something "practical" even if they don't necessarily care for it or have a passion for it. Sometimes this is pushed on them by their parents. Just ask 80% of accounting majors.

Funny story about that. Years ago, I used to see all these accounting grads in other areas of the business and this led me to thinking that accounting must be a special unicorn major that can get you into anything. This prompted me going back to school for accounting and even trying it on for size. Come to find out, it's not really that accounting majors are anything special. Rather, it's that so many of them leave accounting or never go into accounting because it's such a drab career path with pretty bad WLB depending on where you work.
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Old 11-29-2023, 09:14 AM
 
6,922 posts, read 6,979,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
He's not being forced. He's already taking the easy way out by letting someone else pay for his education. He could go into the military or find some other way to pay for the major he wants.
But he should not have to join the military just to get an education. The cost of college is too high.
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Old 11-29-2023, 09:43 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,657 posts, read 17,252,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But he should not have to join the military just to get an education. The cost of college is too high.
The cost of college has always been high.
I went to college on the GI bill myself.
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Old 11-29-2023, 09:51 AM
 
Location: In your head
1,014 posts, read 513,333 times
Reputation: 1482
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
The cost of college has always been high.
I went to college on the GI bill myself.
No, it hasn't. Not a single reputable data source out there supports this narrative.

Quote:
The average cost of college tuition & fees at public 4-year institutions has risen 179.2% over the last 20 years for an average annual increase of 9.0%.
https://educationdata.org/average-co...ollege-by-year

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...l-universities

Quote:
Using data from the nonprofit College Board last year, My eLearning found that the average cost of going to a private college — including tuition, fees, books, and room and board — went from $2,930 per year in 1971 to $51,690 in 2021. That is an increase of roughly 4.6 times the rate of inflation over the past 50 years.

The price tag for public college has surged, too, going from $1,410 annually in the early 1970s to $22,690 for in-state students and $39,510 for out-of-state students as of last fall.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...ation-50-years

Quote:
In 1980, the price to attend a four-year college full-time was $10,231 annually—including tuition, fees, room and board, and adjusted for inflation—according to the National Center for Education Statistics. By 2019-20, the total price increased to $28,775. That’s a 180% increase.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/coll...lege-over-time
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Old 11-29-2023, 10:05 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,657 posts, read 17,252,808 times
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$10,231 in 1980 would be $40,459 in today's dollars.
Inflation

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm



You can thank the Federal Reserve for printing money out of thin air.
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Old 11-29-2023, 11:16 AM
 
Location: In your head
1,014 posts, read 513,333 times
Reputation: 1482
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
$10,231 in 1980 would be $40,459 in today's dollars.
Inflation

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm



You can thank the Federal Reserve for printing money out of thin air.
That amount is already adjusted for inflation. You want to look at the present value of 10,000 in 1980, not future value of 10,000 in 2023.

In other words, it's saying that in today's dollars, a college degree costs ~$10k annually in 1980 whereas today it costs ~$28k annually. Over four years, that's (28,000*4)=112,000 - (10,000*4)=40,000 = a $72,000 difference in the overall cost of the degree in today's dollars.

Last edited by digitalUID; 11-29-2023 at 11:26 AM..
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