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Old 11-29-2023, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
12,954 posts, read 7,327,072 times
Reputation: 9699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Right now we pretty much have 50 relatively independent agencies (state ed departments) with no coordinated plan, and in many cases no state plan, to promote wise career choices based on what our nation needs. The self-interest of private industry will never lead to a coordinated program.
Which is why, this has been be talked and studied for eons.
We are biological and in the US, a capitalist-merit society.
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Old 11-29-2023, 01:32 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,665 posts, read 17,264,873 times
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K-12 just needs to concentrate on foundational academics.

College is where they pick a career path.
And they have 2 years in college before they need to pick their major.
Give it back to the colleges.
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Old 11-29-2023, 01:35 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,014 posts, read 513,738 times
Reputation: 1482
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
Which is why, this has been be talked and studied for eons.
We are biological and in the US, a capitalist-merit society.
I do think, overall, it is in their collective best interest to develop a pipeline of talent. As such, there needs to be coordinated efforts with schools and government to establish this.

Every major professional sports league has development leagues. These are added expenses on the P&L and
probably ~90% of the talent within the organization doesn't pan out and make it to the big league roster. But they still invest in it regardless.

That said, part of the issue IMO is the constantly shifting needs of individual companies and industries at large. Like I said in an earlier post, my field didn't even exist when I was in high school over 20 years ago which is probably considered STEM-adjacent. There are tons of college major programs and hybrid major programs that I never heard about when I was in college. UX, AI, ML...it's an alphabet soup of relatively new fields that exist today and will probably look vastly different in 10 or 20 years from now. Hell, with automation, I certainly wouldn't be counting on accounting to be a safe bet for someone born today. Jobs will still exist in that field, but far fewer than there are today and far, far fewer than there were 20 years ago.
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Old 11-29-2023, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
12,954 posts, read 7,327,072 times
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^Possibly the question, Is the funnel and pipeline big enough?
DS is UX/UI ('06) by a circuitous route. He always wanted to be in this field since grade school. How long any career will last, is always unknown.
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:06 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,554 posts, read 57,471,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
^#147, Overly general.

Nothing wrong with the perceived weeding out process.
Do we want scientists, engineers and technicians and less than very good in what they do?
Would be huge waste of time and money for everyone, if we have people who either can't cut it.
Evidence is in the results... <25% of USA STEM grads remain in their chosen field after 5 yrs OTJ. +/-

Of the grads I've seen... >75% should have NOT arrived OTJ

Nothing wrong with a broad education, or in changing careers. But there is something wrong with occupying limited space and resources for someone not interested or capable. EOE has added to our dilution, as have many mandated regulations.

There are very easy ways to effectively inform and screen (and not weed out academically). Academics is sometimes the 'easy part' for the 'un-interested / un-qualified (can't cut it) crowd. It's very different to check the academic steps and boxes, verses being an effective contributor in a STEM occupation.

Kinda like teachers and administrators, and nearly every other skill. Just that some are very easy to fake it for life (no tangible deliverables)

STEM and skilled trades... You either make it (by your obvious contributions), or you are not needed or desired to take up space and payroll. Technical / STEM employers can't risk under performance. Some occupations cater to underperformance. (And employers get the results, and dismiss or train, as determined worth the expense and risk.)
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,130 posts, read 23,792,348 times
Reputation: 32532
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
K-12 just needs to concentrate on foundational academics.

College is where they pick a career path.
And they have 2 years in college before they need to pick their major.
Give it back to the colleges.
I can agree with most of that. I think K-12 needs to focus on a knowledge base that all students need, regardless of what they do after high school. That does not mean that there can't be exploration of careers and trades and how to make wise career decisions.
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:41 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,014 posts, read 513,738 times
Reputation: 1482
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I can agree with most of that. I think K-12 needs to focus on a knowledge base that all students need, regardless of what they do after high school. That does not mean that there can't be exploration of careers and trades and how to make wise career decisions.
100% this.

At the very least, get them to the point where they are aware of their top-5 career picks. Job shadowing programs, tech school, informational interviews, co-op jobs...and make some of these pre-reqs for graduation possibly. God knows I had downtime in my senior year to do such things.

They'll probably change gears once or twice while in school. And 5-10 years out of college/trade school/military, many of them will be shifting gears into new areas altogether. Just get them to the starting line.
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
12,954 posts, read 7,327,072 times
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To the aboves,
See threads on, Forgiving Student Loan Debt.

Should US direct money via student loans to areas of National Importance?
Should US Government be laissez faire to education?
Obligatory 3rd choice; Somewhere in between?
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:00 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,014 posts, read 513,738 times
Reputation: 1482
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
To the aboves,
See threads on, Forgiving Student Loan Debt.

Should US direct money via student loans to areas of National Importance?
Should US Government be laissez faire to education?
Obligatory 3rd choice; Somewhere in between?
Well, as much as I'm in favor of some student loan forgiveness, a lot of that needs to be addressed on the front end, too. Otherwise, you're only serving to treat the symptom, not prevent it from popping up again.


Some thoughts from my non-subject matter expertise:

Reducing administrative costs at B&Ms, offering cheaper (credible) online alternatives, higher access to grants/scholarships for those in need, more funding from Uncle Sam to reduce cost burdens on students
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:34 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,410 posts, read 16,510,164 times
Reputation: 29579
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingStar992 View Post
Could 90s and 2000s America done a better job at inspiring youth to go into science and engineering?
I don't know. My older son was born in 1996, and one of my nephews was born in 1987, another nephew born in 1997. Both are in engineering professions, the former having graduated from Lehigh in 2018 and the latter from RPI in 2005 or 2006, and thereafter from a Stanford graduate program. My younger nephew, the one born in 1997 graduated from RPI in, I want to say 2017. All had plenty of classmates.
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