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Old 11-29-2023, 07:35 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,116 posts, read 18,281,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Obviously it has to be done well. But if I have to choose between kids learning to use a microwave and learning how to make a budget, I'll take the latter.
The choice would be CD's and mortgages vs budget.
But whoever wrote the curriculum chose the CD's and mortgages.

I betcha it was all "in one ear and out the other"

I looked up 6th grade Math which includes Financial Literacy (Texas).
6th grade ....this is 11 years old..just 2 examples.
Just seems more appropriate for 16 and older since they would be starting to work and get a paycheck.

(E) describe the information in a credit report and how long it is retained;
(H) compare the annual salary of several occupations requiring various levels of post-secondary education or vocational training and calculate the effects of the different annual salaries on lifetime income.



Edit to add- And people wonder why kids don't like math and think it's too hard

Last edited by TMSRetired; 11-29-2023 at 07:49 PM..
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:41 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
No, the problem is never acknowledged by the politicians and school system leaders who can only parrot the same old "free college for everyone!" mantra, even though actual teachers, parents, kids, and the general public all know of the many ways that theory has failed students and society.

Let's face it, politicians and school superintendents don't tend to be the sharpest knives in the drawer; and combine that with the need to pander to the most vocal activists and interest groups, and no one in public life is saying what we all say at the dinner table in the privacy of our own homes.
Since the law was passed in 1965 that gave student loans government backing, there's been too much money to be made.
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
In your quote "free college for everyone!", replace the word college with the phrase job training. Once upon a time, this wasn't a far fetched idea.

Nobody should have to start out their adult life indebted up to their eyeballs to banks, colleges, or corporations to receive whatever sort of training they need to begin a profession that pays enough to live, have children, afford healthcare expenses, food, etc. My dad's company paid for his CDL in 1979 and he drove trucks locally for 45 years supporting a family of six on less than $50k/yr. By his early 20s, he had the ability to buy property and start a family. Call me an ideologue or radical, but this is the way it should be IMO.

In my professional experience, MOST administrative/operational jobs in corporate can be taught to anyone with moderate intelligence levels in 3-6 months (degree or no degree). However, today, a college degree is often used as a gatekeeping tool to help HR departments weed out candidates. This tells me there simply aren't enough corporate office jobs to be had, even by those with college degrees. Outside of the most common trades (plumbing, electrical, HVAC), there really aren't enough discussions about other career paths that exist. I used to work for a non-destructive testing company when I was in high school. If I hadn't been so hyper-focused on the prescribed college plan that was pushed on me, this could have been a fantastic career path for someone like me. Yet, if it wasn't for that experience, I would have no idea that NDT was even a thing. As a society, we're simply not talking about alternative pathways enough. Maybe secondary schools and companies should be holding more informational career fairs for students that discuss these options. In many parts of Europe, most students are placed on pathways based on interests and ability by this point in their schooling. Maybe we should be doing this in the U.S. Another massive problem in this country is that nobody wants to train anyone anymore; they want someone else to do it for them.
I agree with all of that.
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:48 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But he should not have to join the military just to get an education. The cost of college is too high.
The cost of college is too high. But a large reason for that is because the money to pay for it is loaned too easily and the market is artificially pumped by the education industry pushing it as the only way to go.

First, college loans should be as dischargeable by bankruptcy as any other debt...that would reduce the easy money supply.

Second, the education industry should begin advising students early of other vocational/technical training they could pursue rather than a bachelor's degree...reduce the demand for college.

Third, businesses should re-evaluate the jobs that actually need a bachelor's degree rather than vocational/technical training or apprenticeships. That might require purging the HR mafia (all with bachelor's degrees) who do the gatekeeping.
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,822 posts, read 24,335,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
The choice would be CD's and mortgages vs budget.
But whoever wrote the curriculum chose the CD's and mortgages.

I betcha it was all "in one ear and out the other"

I looked up 6th grade Math which includes Financial Literacy (Texas).
6th grade ....this is 11 years old..just 2 examples.
Just seems more appropriate for 16 and older since they would be starting to work and get a paycheck.

(E) describe the information in a credit report and how long it is retained;
(H) compare the annual salary of several occupations requiring various levels of post-secondary education or vocational training and calculate the effects of the different annual salaries on lifetime income.
My point is that some of the time spent in certain electives is a waste of time, home ec as it is still taught today in many schools is a good example.

Okay...except what does "Financial Literacy" mean? And perhaps it is a bit like we teach American history. Light dose in lower primary grades. Higher dose in higher primary grades. Higher dose yet in middle school. Higher dose in high school. Lay the basic foundation to add in the heavier details later.
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:53 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
$10,231 in 1980 would be $40,459 in today's dollars.
Inflation

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm



You can thank the Federal Reserve for printing money out of thin air.
College tuition more expensive in concrete terms: How much labor is necessary to pay for it.

When I started college in 1972 at the University of Oklahoma, tuition was $25 per credit hour. I had a part-time job, 20 hours a week, paying $2.50 an hour...I paid off my total semester tuition within half the semester. The federal minimum wage was $1.25 an hour...at 20 hours a week working part-time, the total semester tuition could be paid off within that same semester.

Today, tuition at the University of Oklahoma is more than $400 per credit hour. A student would need to make $40 per hour part-time to do as well as I did. But how many part-time jobs for an undergraduate student pay $40 an hour? Drug dealing and Only Fans, maybe.
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:55 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID View Post
I'd argue that most majors can be made practical under the right circumstances or in the right environment. Even English Lit majors are valuable in areas of the business where communicating a strong message is important. Many corporate legal departments are composed of both attorneys and a plethora of liberal arts majors who work beside them. One of our Ops managers has a BFA. Our former director had a BA in English. These can be valuable backgrounds in areas of the business that require a lot of writing, communication, and putting together presentation materials. Most engineers or accountants sure as hell don't want to do this type of work.

When people say how they can't fathom what one does with one of these degrees, I just assume they've had very little experience working in Corporate America, at large companies, or at many different organizations at all. In nearly two decades of experience, I've worked alongside with all sorts of pedigrees and backgrounds (many of which were in the liberal arts, fine arts, and social sciences, too). If you are deeply passionate about writing or communications, then you can certainly make a career out of that. Probably not at Mom&Pop Plumbing Co., but somewhere like Amazon, Meta, JPMorgan Chase, Deloitte, or any other organization that has a plethora of departments and talent needs.
That's why I keep saying that soft degree holder has to be bright enough on the back end to parlay the degree into a lucrative profession. It's not going to just come down the chimney like Santa. There won't be a bevy of headhunters waiting on graduation day.
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Old 11-29-2023, 07:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Some pressure is implied, some is real (Alma mater, family business, family legacy..)

Nothing is going to stop parental / peer pressure until we equip confident and capable kids (parents, school, society all play a role)

Some situations cannot be changed (family / location), so you cope.... And get out when you have the guts and resources to do so.

Parents/ family paying for higher education, causes the weak to comply, tho they could choose a different path if they were capable.

Getting youth exposed and equipped to make life choices can accelerate the process of growing up. (Including edu and career choices).

Coddling, sheltering, avoiding challenges, choices, and commitments delays purposeful maturity. Many nations mediate that by mandatory conscription. +/- USA is very keen on 'sheltering' / protecting young adults.

When you travel the world, you find thousands of international youth traveling / living in foreign countries, but very few Americans. They are home wasting their ripe formative, adventurous yrs, following the crowd / cultural expectation of 'college bound'. Taking that path without substantial objectives, is just continuing the failed K-12 'average' path, leading to 'average' (declining) progress.

We need leaders. They are not typically found among followers. (USA edu system)
If you compare the US with Europe, though, the boss is still who pays the cost. European students still don't get to take whatever they want at government expense. Those systems still work from middle school upward to funnel students into career fields that suit them best (not necessarily what their little hearts desire) and benefits the nation.
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Old 11-29-2023, 08:02 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
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Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Forcing square pegs into round holes is poor practice. Many people find nothing about STEM to be interesting. Additionally, it's connection with the military industrial complex, is a turn off to some.

We also need Critical Thinkers. Writers. Sociologists. Anthropologists. Social Workers, Psychologists, and others.
Not that many, though. We need a lot more plumbers.
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Old 11-29-2023, 08:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
You were right, and still are.
We still need a lot more plumbers. Civilization as we know it would end without plumbers. But no kid is going to answer "Plumbing."
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