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Old 11-30-2023, 09:06 PM
 
11,630 posts, read 12,688,546 times
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I guess I live in an alternative universe. STEM is being shoved down the throats of kids. Every single K-12 school has a certified STEM teacher in our local districts, rich and poor. Computer Science starts in kindergarten (hour of code) with Python and HTML basics taught in 4th grade and then more advanced coding through high school. Every single school has a robotics program starting in 5th grade, some in grade 2. Bill Nye is so 20 years ago. There are other science gurus in the media showing magic tricks with explanations to get kids excited about different areas of science. They have live shows too. Our high schools compete in the Regeneron Science Talent Search with usually a few winners from my local area. New York State has traditionally the most winners. The music and art programs have all turned into STEM using technology as a tool, with some teachers dually certified. NYSCATE oversees these programs, offers teacher training, and I am a member of NYSCATE. There are summer internships at Cold Spring Harbor and Brookhaven labs. I think it has become overkill.

The latest fad in literacy is the science of reading. It's nothing more than returning to the methods of yore, giving it a new updated fancy name. It replaced balanced literacy (formerly whole language).

What this generation is really lacking is education in World and American history. Misguided ignorant students now run amok all over college campuses, intimidating other students and destroying campus property. They can code, but they can't identify the factors that led to WWI or the Great Depression.

I write for a national organization that encourages college students to major in STEM fields, especially young women. We have hundreds of college campus branches throughout the US. There is no shortage of people majoring in STEM. There are more women in medical schools than men. The biggest problem for women is that they hit the glass ceiling and then drop out of the profession after a few years, but that's an entirely different subject and I've had several articles published about this topic. I just had an article published about a company that is comprised of mostly women engineers, who invent and maintain the technology used at entertainment events. Not everyone has to do research in academia or the government.
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Old 11-30-2023, 09:23 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,687 posts, read 57,985,728 times
Reputation: 46166
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
That is not possible in every state I am familiar with.

Here in Washington the MINIMUM is 3 years of both math and science which means taking both of them through your junior year. ....
Or just show up at the U with your previously agreed Matrculation Contract, transcripts, and degree from CC and enter U as a FT Jr, rather than attend HS at all. As long as you have fulfilled your contract for agreed entrance into your U program... Just blow off HS altogether.

1) You will have followed the guidance of U
2) You will have completed pre-reqs
3) You will have valid upper level transcripts (but you may not have a HS diploma) it's Not Required when you possess a higher certificate & transcripts.
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Old 12-01-2023, 08:06 AM
 
19,767 posts, read 18,050,613 times
Reputation: 17250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney View Post
I guess I live in an alternative universe. STEM is being shoved down the throats of kids. Every single K-12 school has a certified STEM teacher in our local districts, rich and poor. Computer Science starts in kindergarten (hour of code) with Python and HTML basics taught in 4th grade and then more advanced coding through high school. Every single school has a robotics program starting in 5th grade, some in grade 2. Bill Nye is so 20 years ago. There are other science gurus in the media showing magic tricks with explanations to get kids excited about different areas of science. They have live shows too. Our high schools compete in the Regeneron Science Talent Search with usually a few winners from my local area. New York State has traditionally the most winners. The music and art programs have all turned into STEM using technology as a tool, with some teachers dually certified. NYSCATE oversees these programs, offers teacher training, and I am a member of NYSCATE. There are summer internships at Cold Spring Harbor and Brookhaven labs. I think it has become overkill.

The latest fad in literacy is the science of reading. It's nothing more than returning to the methods of yore, giving it a new updated fancy name. It replaced balanced literacy (formerly whole language).

What this generation is really lacking is education in World and American history. Misguided ignorant students now run amok all over college campuses, intimidating other students and destroying campus property. They can code, but they can't identify the factors that led to WWI or the Great Depression.

I write for a national organization that encourages college students to major in STEM fields, especially young women. We have hundreds of college campus branches throughout the US. There is no shortage of people majoring in STEM. There are more women in medical schools than men. The biggest problem for women is that they hit the glass ceiling and then drop out of the profession after a few years, but that's an entirely different subject and I've had several articles published about this topic. I just had an article published about a company that is comprised of mostly women engineers, who invent and maintain the technology used at entertainment events. Not everyone has to do research in academia or the government.

Per your conclusion about women and medicine if you are peddling that kind of nonsense you should stop.

The garbage stat floating around is that 40% of women MDs and DOs quit medicine or go part time because of some glass ceiling/male hate. The reality is medicine in one of just a couple of professions that pays well enough that part time work and job sharing are normal.


The truth is most female MDs and DOs who go part time do so by choice usually centering around becoming moms. Per medscape females actually leave the profession at rates just a little higher than men.


My daughter and daughter in law are both young MDs - neither has said a word about being marginalized, harassed or seeing a glass ceiling.

Given the way most medical practices work, to include hospital settings how exactly could there be much of a glass ceiling? MD driven orgs. tend to be very flat.
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Old 12-01-2023, 08:25 AM
 
12,831 posts, read 9,025,507 times
Reputation: 34873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney View Post
I guess I live in an alternative universe. STEM is being shoved down the throats of kids. Every single K-12 school has a certified STEM teacher in our local districts, rich and poor. Computer Science starts in kindergarten (hour of code) with Python and HTML basics taught in 4th grade and then more advanced coding through high school. Every single school has a robotics program starting in 5th grade, some in grade 2. Bill Nye is so 20 years ago. There are other science gurus in the media showing magic tricks with explanations to get kids excited about different areas of science. They have live shows too. Our high schools compete in the Regeneron Science Talent Search with usually a few winners from my local area. New York State has traditionally the most winners. The music and art programs have all turned into STEM using technology as a tool, with some teachers dually certified. NYSCATE oversees these programs, offers teacher training, and I am a member of NYSCATE. There are summer internships at Cold Spring Harbor and Brookhaven labs. I think it has become overkill.

nt.
Sounds like what you're describing is a very limited percent of schools around the country. Who do you write for---they may have data on the percentage of schools that do what you described .
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Old 12-01-2023, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
4,859 posts, read 6,917,054 times
Reputation: 10170
When my son starting teaching high school math 17 years ago, it was very competitive to land jobs in the more attractive schools. LOTS of applications.

Fast forward to today. He now teaches in a fairly large school close to Omaha and has transitioned into the school's only computer teacher while teaching one class of Geometry.

You would think with this proximity (not teaching in the boonies OR the hood) they wouldn't have difficulty filling teacher positions for high school math. Wrong. This year they had one position they couldn't fill. Thus, the school dropped the top level elective computer class he taught in order to free him up to fill this open position teaching 2 more math classes while losing a work period. A lot of students and parents were not happy. Needless to say, neither was he.

Does what happened make sense? With so much concern about today's students not receiving a top flight education in the STEM subjects, dropping upper level computer classes from the curriculum is a huge step in the WRONG direction. Sure, they probably had no choice, but there in lies the problem.

Main problem here obviously is, why are so few students going into math education now? As I stated, this is a very recent phenomenon, especially over the last 5 or so years. In just the last 15 years this drop is dramatic as evidenced by the issues at his school and others around there as well.
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Old 12-01-2023, 11:35 AM
 
Location: U.S.
9,512 posts, read 9,076,088 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's not just the 2000s. American in general hasn't inspired kids to study STEM subjects for as long as we've been a country. Even the Space Race only inspired a limited number to go into it. In fact, that's why the term "STEM -- Science, Technology, Engineering, Math" was coined to be able to discuss this very issue.

Not STEAM.
Not STREAM.

STEM.

Our primary and secondary education system does not inspire kids to study STEM subjects. Consider how few teachers of those subject are actually enthusiastic about it and pass along that enthusiasm. Consider there have been prospective teachers who posted on this forum asking, "why do I have to pass a math test to teach?"

The "leaky pipeline" has been well documented for girls and minority students but really applies to all. Kids in elementary start out enthusiastic. We start losing them in middle school when the math and science subjects get harder, and it becomes "uncool" to study them. It's pretty hard for a kid to want to study hard subjects, especially when they get called names like "geek" and "nerd" for doing it. Especially hard for girls. Gets worse in high school. By the time of college, even many of the students who like the STEM subjects are so far behind they drop STEM for something easier.

The concern is serious enough that most of the major government agencies, like DoD, consider the problems in STEM education a national competitiveness and security concern. Many of the science and engineering professional societies have conducted their own studies that illustrate the problem.
Good luck trying to keep exclusively to only stem. Steam is flying around everywhere in schools as the arts want to come in for the big win too.

Here is your department of education discussing steam vs stem.

https://sites.ed.gov/whblackinitiative/

From the website:
“On March 28, 2017, the White House Initiative on Educational Excellence for African Americans hosted a Full STEAM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Arts, and Mathematics) Ahead Summit to advance educational excellence in the STEAM fields. This summit was a response to address the need to get more students involved in STEAM educational subjects and careers.”
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,502 posts, read 2,646,853 times
Reputation: 12990
Now all they need is to make it STEHAEM (science, technology, English, History, arts, engineering, and mathematics) and it'll be fully inclusive and totally useless.

Frankly, SM (Science and Mathematics) pretty well cover the subjects of concern at the elementary and secondary school level. Engineering and technology don't really get into the mix until afterwards.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:54 PM
 
Location: WA
5,438 posts, read 7,723,606 times
Reputation: 8538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney View Post
What this generation is really lacking is education in World and American history. Misguided ignorant students now run amok all over college campuses, intimidating other students and destroying campus property. They can code, but they can't identify the factors that led to WWI or the Great Depression.
I would also add world languages.

At my daughter's middle school it was so bad that languages were considered an elective and you could either take music (band/choir) or language but not both. You had to choose one or the other.

The rest of the world has long ago passed us by in languages. Embarrassingly so.
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Old 12-01-2023, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
I would also add world languages.

At my daughter's middle school it was so bad that languages were considered an elective and you could either take music (band/choir) or language but not both. You had to choose one or the other.

The rest of the world has long ago passed us by in languages. Embarrassingly so.
I am not impressed by foreign language classes. At my middle school we offered 2 years of French, Spanish, and sometimes Latin. And I don't know of a single student who ever used that language in their career. In fact, one of our students who had a cultural background in a foreign language applied to become some sort of translator by the federal government, and they sent him to school to learn a different language.
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Old 12-01-2023, 03:09 PM
 
4,381 posts, read 4,230,703 times
Reputation: 5859
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I am not impressed by foreign language classes. At my middle school we offered 2 years of French, Spanish, and sometimes Latin. And I don't know of a single student who ever used that language in their career. In fact, one of our students who had a cultural background in a foreign language applied to become some sort of translator by the federal government, and they sent him to school to learn a different language.
One of the things that I would have to tell my students is that you can't realistically get to a proficient level of language in a school class for almost 90 minutes a day for almost 90 days for two years (180-day school year + block scheduling). You can, however, master the concepts and build a foundation for what is really a lifelong task of mastering a second language.

I was at a high school that regularly produced NCAA Division I basketball players with a higher-than-average chance of making it into the NBA. One of my top students ever was a valedictorian who went on to play professionally in around 13 different countries. His family had already produced a legendary NFL player, but things didn't work out for this young man in the NBA, so he went abroad.

He and I would have many conversations on his trips back home. It was because of his experiences that I would tell my students who played, "You need to be able to speak French AND be able to teach yourself any other language." Then I would discuss briefly the different kinds of languages in which this alum had had to acquire at least minimal proficiency: Spanish, Chinese (whatever is spoken in Jilin), Japanese, Hebrew, Arabic, and Hungarian.

In places where he played just one season, I would imagine that he didn't develop any fluency, just minimal proficiency. But after several consecutive seasons in the Middle East, I think his Arabic was somewhat passable. This gentleman had a high degree of aptitude for languages, which made it easier for him to play overseas, just as his natural athletic talent and physical build made him able to rise to the professional level with excellent coaching and training. (At 7' 1", I used to joke that he was "six-feet thirteen".)

It is possible for people who don't have that natural talent to learn a foreign language as an adult, for the most part, but they will almost never lose the qualities of their native tongue. Henry Kissinger retained his accent until his death at 100. The inborn aptitude appears to drop as children develop, with puberty seeming to be a critical point. Many adults struggle ever to reach a high level of proficiency, even with a great deal of clock hours.

When we as educators wait to introduce foreign language as a school elective in middle school, we fail to take advantage of the natural ability that nearly all young children have to learn languages organically and nearly effortlessly. There is also a shortage of teachers whose own proficiency is high enough to conduct their classes in the immersion format. I didn't reach that level for decades. One of our district-wide foreign language in-services began with teachers introducing themselves as the Spanish teacher who was afraid to speak Spanish, for example. Only a few of us could actually achieve professional proficiency according to the ACTFL ratings. I will be learning French until my dying day, and I started over 40 years ago.

One of my best friends in high school attended the Defense Language Institute while learning Korean for the Navy. It took two years of essentially round-the-clock language training before the servicemen had achieved enough proficiency to be useful. You don't get that kind of experience in a typical school experience. To expect any degree of professional proficiency from middle school students who study 45 minutes a day for 180 days for three years is unrealistic.

Last edited by lhpartridge; 12-01-2023 at 03:17 PM..
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