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Old 12-06-2023, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,884 posts, read 24,393,171 times
Reputation: 32990

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
That statement is literal proof that those running the education show are incompetent liars, 34th of 40 in math means our kids are in the game to sweep floors and flip burgers.
Probably because some of you folks keep telling everyone that college isn't necessary.
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Old 12-06-2023, 03:14 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,754 posts, read 58,128,451 times
Reputation: 46247
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Probably because some of you folks keep telling everyone that college isn't necessary.
Unfortunately, college may soon not be an option for those K-12 schooled in the USA.

OECD / PISA tests demonstrate the proficiency of 15 Yr Olds.
The (USA) 2022 math score was not only lower than it was in 2012 but it was "among the lowest ever measured by PISA in mathematics" for the U.S., per the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)
How can colleges keep registration open for USA students, when there is the rest of the world who is seeking to GAIN education, rather than decline?

I haven't heard anyone here on this thread mention that college is not important or necessary, but there are plenty of threads addressing the many other viable options to college.

Is college necessary? Hopefully NOT as a vehicle to instruct underachieving / failed k-12 system. We (USA) cannot afford to waste higher edu / research / profs / staff / infrastructure / available seats... on trying to deliver a basic education that was not met as a pre-req. (Neither can employers).

Has America done a bad job at inspiring youth to go into science and engineering?


Might need to go a few steps before INSPIRING youth.

EQUIPPING youth, night be a necessary first step.
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Old 12-06-2023, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,544 posts, read 2,698,884 times
Reputation: 13115
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Unfortunately, college may soon not be an option for those K-12 schooled in the USA.

....
Ummm....
Have you taken a look at engineering majors at any of the big state schools? I'd say they run about 85-95% schooled in American public schools. Yes, they're suburban school districts with well-heeled parents who are in the administrators' shorts all day every day, but they're American public schools.
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Old 12-06-2023, 03:59 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,754 posts, read 58,128,451 times
Reputation: 46247
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
Ummm....
Have you taken a look at engineering majors at any of the big state schools? I'd say they run about 85-95% schooled in American public schools. ...
and the scary part...

Those very students are part of this very demographic.
PISA 2022 results are in. US ranked 34 out of 40 OECD countries in Math

..."among the lowest ever measured by PISA in mathematics" for the U.S., per the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)
It's quite evident in the results... because I have to HIRE them! (after engineering graduation(?))

Fortunately... it's a big world out there, with a lot who are in this demographic

"a total of 31 countries and economies "maintained or improved upon their 2018 math scores, including Switzerland and Japan."

"10 countries and economies -- Canada, Denmark, Finland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Japan, Korea, Latvia, Macao and the U.K. -- saw their students score proficiently in all three domains and had 'high levels of socio-economic fairness,'"


Thank goodness most of our new hires in Engineering are from those 'improving' nations.
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Old 12-06-2023, 04:15 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,597 posts, read 28,706,672 times
Reputation: 25179
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
Ummm....
Have you taken a look at engineering majors at any of the big state schools? I'd say they run about 85-95% schooled in American public schools. Yes, they're suburban school districts with well-heeled parents who are in the administrators' shorts all day every day, but they're American public schools.
I think we need a racial breakdown of those students schooled in American public schools.

If they are heavily Asiatic or of recent immigrant extraction, then that would be telling.
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Old 12-06-2023, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,884 posts, read 24,393,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I think we need a racial breakdown of those students schooled in American public schools.

If they are heavily Asiatic or of recent immigrant extraction, then that would be telling.
All "Asiatic" students are not of equal determination in education. It varies very much by the particular Asian culture.
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Old 12-06-2023, 10:33 PM
 
12,860 posts, read 9,076,133 times
Reputation: 34959
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
There was no 'heavy guidance' in our school. Period. A form was sent home for parents and students to choose electives. There was no contact with guidance counselors unless requested by the parents or students. But, keep the misrepresentations coming.
Sorry, I just can't keep up with the way your goal posts keep moving. Must have been quite a wild ride for your students to follow along in class.
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Old 12-06-2023, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,884 posts, read 24,393,171 times
Reputation: 32990
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Sorry, I just can't keep up with the way your goal posts keep moving. Must have been quite a wild ride for your students to follow along in class.
You're the one who brought up 'heavy guidance'.
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Old 12-07-2023, 08:29 AM
 
19,822 posts, read 18,116,531 times
Reputation: 17302
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Probably because some of you folks keep telling everyone that college isn't necessary.
I'm as pro college/formal education as anyone here. That said I recognize that some are not intellectually able and others are not interested in college. So definitionally college isn't necessary for everyone.


________


The Education Sec. had an opportunity to be honest with the American people about where our kids are in the world educationally. Instead he put on his used car salesman's had and mischaracterized our kid's standing. It seems you are OK with that I am not.
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Old 12-07-2023, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,884 posts, read 24,393,171 times
Reputation: 32990
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'm as pro college/formal education as anyone here. That said I recognize that some are not intellectually able and others are not interested in college. So definitionally college isn't necessary for everyone.


________


The Education Sec. had an opportunity to be honest with the American people about where our kids are in the world educationally. Instead he put on his used car salesman's had and mischaracterized our kid's standing. It seems you are OK with that I am not.
First paragraph...and I don't disagree.

Last paragraph...you're wrong. When I was a principal, each year I had an evening parent meeting where I discussed out test scores (among other things). Mostly good results, some great. But also places where we fell down. I just told it like it was and what we were attempting to do about it. While I'm not sure what the Education Secretary said, or when he said it, etc., he probably did what most do in this country about most things -- present a pretty picture. That's not the way to bring about improvement, but it's the way most people work. [but maybe you could give a link to what he said?]
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