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Old 12-07-2023, 09:50 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,054 posts, read 18,216,027 times
Reputation: 34926

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
First paragraph...and I don't disagree.

Last paragraph...you're wrong. When I was a principal, each year I had an evening parent meeting where I discussed out test scores (among other things). Mostly good results, some great. But also places where we fell down. I just told it like it was and what we were attempting to do about it. While I'm not sure what the Education Secretary said, or when he said it, etc., he probably did what most do in this country about most things -- present a pretty picture. That's not the way to bring about improvement, but it's the way most people work. [but maybe you could give a link to what he said?]
I gave the link along with the PISA scores.
We sunk to 34/40...worst Math scores ever.

And here's what the Secretary of Education said....total denial

https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...cent-pisa-data
"Here's the bottom line: At an extremely tough time in education, the United States moved up in the world rankings in reading, math, and science – all three categories PISA measures – while, unfortunately, many other countries saw declines.

"Today's results are further proof that President Biden's bold investments, backed by tireless efforts at the Department of Education to support student success and academic recovery, kept the United States in the game.
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Old 12-07-2023, 10:08 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,541 posts, read 28,625,446 times
Reputation: 25110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
PISA 2022 results are in. US ranked 34 out of 40 OECD countries in Math

https://science.slashdot.org/story/2...ion-assessment
The 2022 math score was not only lower than it was in 2012 but it was "among the lowest ever measured by PISA in mathematics" for the U.S., per the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) country note.
..
What about the rest of the world? According to Axios, a total of 31 countries and economies "maintained or improved upon their 2018 math scores, including Switzerland and Japan."

"10 countries and economies -- Canada, Denmark, Finland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Japan, Korea, Latvia, Macao and the U.K. -- saw their students score proficiently in all three domains and had 'high levels of socio-economic fairness,'" the report adds.


The response from US Education Secretary:
https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...cent-pisa-data
"Here's the bottom line: At an extremely tough time in education, the United States moved up in the world rankings in reading, math, and science – all three categories PISA measures – while, unfortunately, many other countries saw declines.

"Today's results are further proof that President Biden's bold investments, backed by tireless efforts at the Department of Education to support student success and academic recovery, kept the United States in the game.


PISA rankings 2022:
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/OECD_2022_...athematics.pdf
The Education Secretary had to take into consideration the demographic differences between the United States and most other OECD countries.

That is probably the subtext of his statement.
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Old 12-07-2023, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
I gave the link along with the PISA scores.
We sunk to 34/40...worst Math scores ever.

And here's what the Secretary of Education said....total denial

https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...cent-pisa-data
"Here's the bottom line: At an extremely tough time in education, the United States moved up in the world rankings in reading, math, and science – all three categories PISA measures – while, unfortunately, many other countries saw declines.

"Today's results are further proof that President Biden's bold investments, backed by tireless efforts at the Department of Education to support student success and academic recovery, kept the United States in the game.
I would agree. That was politics talking, not education.
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Old 12-07-2023, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The Education Secretary had to take into consideration the demographic differences between the United States and most other OECD countries.

That is probably the subtext of his statement.
And that is a matter to consider.

I hope you'll see the connection here, but I'll tell you a little story (non-fiction).

At the school where I was principal, we had -- as I have mentioned before -- a very diverse student population. Not in terms of what people usually mean by that, but broadly diverse. A fair number of Black and Latino students. Quite a few ESL students. Quite a few SPED students. Quite a few embassy kids. Lots of gifted. So I am talking about diverse beyond just race.

When kids would get back from summer vacation, if I asked them what they did on vacation, we would have kids who said that they went to the Riviera (yes, really), or England, or other exotic locations "for the summer". But one christmas season I decided to pick 5 poor Black kids to take down to see the lighting of the National Christmas Tree near the White House (our school was in the region). We're driving down 14th Street heading toward the Ellipse, and one kid yells out, "WHAT IS THAT?" Seconds later another kid yells out, "AND WHAT IS THAT?" And then another yells out "AND WHAT"S THAT UP THERE?" The answers -- the Washington Monument, the Capitol Building, and the White House. The next day I called one of the boys into my office and asked how could they live less than 10 miles away from downtown D.C. and not know what those landmarks were? The basic answer -- money; when both parents work full-time and part-time jobs to pay the rent and put food on the table, there's not much time for sightseeing, even if it is close by.

I'll be honest with you...I don't think anyone has figured out how to bridge such gaps, and that certainly is part of the international comparison picture.
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Old 12-07-2023, 01:21 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,054 posts, read 18,216,027 times
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Other countries send their best and brightest
The US is different in how they choose who participates and I'll leave it at that
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Old 12-07-2023, 03:49 PM
 
19,767 posts, read 18,050,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Other countries send their best and brightest
The US is different in how they choose who participates and I'll leave it at that

I read a couple of great articles about this over the last few days.

The only countries with permission to "select" their best and brightest are A. China and over the last couple of rounds China has broadened test takers from just Beijing to several cities. B. Argentina, no idea why.


Canada, Japan, The US, Singapore, Finland, England, France etc. etc. do not rig their test taking cadres to any important extent.
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Old 12-07-2023, 03:58 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,054 posts, read 18,216,027 times
Reputation: 34926
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I read a couple of great articles about this over the last few days.

The only countries with permission to "select" their best and brightest are A. China and over the last couple of rounds China has broadened test takers from just Beijing to several cities. B. Argentina, no idea why.


Canada, Japan, The US, Singapore, Finland, England, France etc. etc. do not rig their test taking cadres to any important extent.
Well if that's the case then we seem to be winning "The race to the bottom".
We used to be #31 and now we are #34. Only 6 countries did worse than the US in Math.
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Old 12-07-2023, 04:34 PM
 
4,381 posts, read 4,230,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well if that's the case then we seem to be winning "The race to the bottom".
We used to be #31 and now we are #34. Only 6 countries did worse than the US in Math.
Which of the countries at the top have a child poverty rate of 25%, as we do here in the U. S.? And for those with a poverty rate that high, which of them also do no have universal health care for those children? Which of those countries fund their schools based on local property taxes in areas with a depleted tax base?



There are issues in education in the United States which did not start in the schools and which cannot be solved by the schools.
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Old 12-07-2023, 05:08 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,054 posts, read 18,216,027 times
Reputation: 34926
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
Which of the countries at the top have a child poverty rate of 25%, as we do here in the U. S.? And for those with a poverty rate that high, which of them also do no have universal health care for those children? Which of those countries fund their schools based on local property taxes in areas with a depleted tax base?



There are issues in education in the United States which did not start in the schools and which cannot be solved by the schools.
Most education sites are blaming the pandemic, not poverty.
The US had been on a downward trend for Math for years now.
I doubt health insurance had anything to do with math skills.
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Old 12-07-2023, 05:39 PM
 
4,381 posts, read 4,230,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Most education sites are blaming the pandemic, not poverty.
The US had been on a downward trend for Math for years now.
I doubt health insurance had anything to do with math skills.
Are you saying that the U. S. was doing just fine before the pandemic?
And I'm not talking about health insurance but instead health care. When kids are sick or can't see or hear properly, they can't do their best in school.


I remember one student who couldn't see. Her mother couldn't afford glasses, so she went without them for the two years that I taught her. It was neglect, but a referral to child protective services would not have had a favorable outcome.
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