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Old 12-10-2023, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,057 posts, read 7,491,199 times
Reputation: 9787

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Why schools never grasped their primary deliverable (Education), and passed the social ills that prevent them from doing their primary task, to a responsible party who is TRAINED and has the resources and responsibility to DO IT

Wait... I hear the EXCUSES / deferred blame
...snip
as applied to schools, because it is:
Politics.
Money.
Power (melding of the Politics and Money).
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Old 12-10-2023, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,757 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
^ incorrect attribution to me. It belongs to, Markg91359.
Yes, I know.
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Old 12-11-2023, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,057 posts, read 7,491,199 times
Reputation: 9787
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Yes, I know.
I knew that you knew. It was for new readers who didn't know what we knew.
Goodnight.
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Old 12-11-2023, 07:04 AM
 
12,831 posts, read 9,025,507 times
Reputation: 34873
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I rarely see concrete suggestions from you.

I am not required to support your points, and have every right to bring in related points.

I try my best NOT to get into politics in this part of the forum.
To get to concrete suggestions, you first have to identify the problem. At this point you don't even agree there is a problem. You asked earlier why there's no consensus on the solutions. This is why; those inside the education system don't see the problem.
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Old 12-11-2023, 07:33 AM
 
12,831 posts, read 9,025,507 times
Reputation: 34873
Thank you such a well thought out response. I wish CD let us carry responses within a quote to follow on messages because I think your points are good to discuss. In general, I agree with what you said in the response and think we could come to some consensus on specific solutions to specific problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post

I think you are largely accurate. Most of my suggestions are aimed at the middle 75% or 80% of students. The really bright kids will learn even if you just put a book in front of them. The kids in the bottom 10% are not going to be up to grade level. Its just that simple. I had a daughter that struggled with math despite being in a top notch school, getting support at home, and being tutored.
I agree with this also. One of my concerns in general is the top 10%-20%, and even the large group in the middle, doesn't get the instruction they need because the class is being held to the pace of the slowest student. Ultimately that harms most of the class because a lot of the material just doesn't get covered. Or a pacing guide that just moves on to the point a big chunk of the class is so far behind they can't catch up. This is where if we funded smaller classes, I'd like to see more separation by ability. Ultimately at some point schools may have to recognize the classes by chronological age aren't a good fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post

[b]You are correct. However, you are also conceding that we probably cannot do much more to make a large section of students perform better. Teachers are teachers. They are not magicians. They cannot fix homes that don't have books, don't give kids a proper place and supervision to do homework, are full of domestic violence, have parents that abuse drugs or alcohol, or do nothing but set kids in front of a television set every evening after school.

Maybe there is no solution. However, what I won't do is blame the school system for not performing a miracle with kids when this is the environment they are dealing with.
I agree; that's not the school's job. They should quit trying to do it. For example, around here the school system runs a food truck on school breaks. Makes everyone feel good that they are helping and it's an essential service that needs to be done. But it's not the school's job. Should be moved over to the social services department so the school can focus on education.

But at the same time, that shouldn't be the all-purpose excuse. That's only a percentage of the students. Now we get to the need for providing a quality education to the rest of the students.
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Old 12-11-2023, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,057 posts, read 7,491,199 times
Reputation: 9787
^P#375.
The attribution belongs to markg91359. He writes better.
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Old 12-11-2023, 08:07 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,541 posts, read 28,625,446 times
Reputation: 25110
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
To get to concrete suggestions, you first have to identify the problem. At this point you don't even agree there is a problem.
I think the problem (spoken or not) is the wide racial gap in academic performance and aptitude.

This nation has been trying for decades to figure out how to narrow this gap.

That seems to me the holy grail of education.
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Old 12-11-2023, 09:07 AM
 
7,724 posts, read 3,773,440 times
Reputation: 14594
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I think we need a racial breakdown of those students schooled in American public schools.

If they are heavily Asiatic or of recent immigrant extraction, then that would be telling.
somewhat related, there is the list of Columbia University students receiving their Master's degrees in Statistics from a few years ago:

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Old 12-11-2023, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,757 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
To get to concrete suggestions, you first have to identify the problem. At this point you don't even agree there is a problem. You asked earlier why there's no consensus on the solutions. This is why; those inside the education system don't see the problem.
Blatantly untrue.
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Old 12-11-2023, 09:10 AM
 
7,724 posts, read 3,773,440 times
Reputation: 14594
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
First paragraph...and I don't disagree.

Last paragraph...you're wrong. When I was a principal, each year I had an evening parent meeting where I discussed out test scores (among other things). Mostly good results, some great. But also places where we fell down. I just told it like it was and what we were attempting to do about it. While I'm not sure what the Education Secretary said, or when he said it, etc., he probably did what most do in this country about most things -- present a pretty picture. That's not the way to bring about improvement, but it's the way most people work. [but maybe you could give a link to what he said?]
When you "told it like it was," did you take any personal responsibility for student failures? Or assign responsibility to any faculty members?

Nevermind; everyone on this board already knows the answer.
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