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Old 12-11-2023, 09:35 AM
 
28,690 posts, read 18,834,496 times
Reputation: 31003

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I think the problem (spoken or not) is the wide racial gap in academic performance and aptitude.

This nation has been trying for decades to figure out how to narrow this gap.

That seems to me the holy grail of education.
The width of the gap is a matter of culture, and really always was.

I started school in a highly segregated small town in Oklahoma in the late 1950s. The Civil Rights Era was just getting started, my parents' generation had hopes that we (black Boomer children) would be the first generation that would enjoy the fruit of the American Dream, and they were determined that we would be ready.

Our teachers lived in our neighborhood. They were friends and acquaintances of our parents. They were members of the same social clubs, sororities, and fraternities. My first grade teacher was my mother's best friend. The school principal was our Sundy School superintendent. One music teacher played piano in our church, the other music teacher played piano in the church farther down the street. If we acted up in school, our parents would know it by Sunday afternoon.

Our parents and teachers were in lock-step. They knew each other, they trusted each other. No, our parents didn't help us with homework, but they made sure we did it. We didn't get the new books like the white kids did, but our teachers went to the conferences, stole material for the best new concepts like bandits, and wore out the mimeograph machines. I was getting abstract math, like Venn diagrams, by third grade.

If you've seen the movie "Hidden Figures," look at the community where those women lived. That's culture, despite racism.
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Old 12-11-2023, 10:01 AM
 
14,416 posts, read 14,341,598 times
Reputation: 45814
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
When you "told it like it was," did you take any personal responsibility for student failures? Or assign responsibility to any faculty members?

Nevermind; everyone on this board already knows the answer.
Why is it solely the fault of teachers and administrators when kids don't do well in school?

Why aren't parents equally or more responsible?
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Old 12-11-2023, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,917 posts, read 24,424,171 times
Reputation: 33006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The width of the gap is a matter of culture, and really always was.

I started school in a highly segregated small town in Oklahoma in the late 1950s. The Civil Rights Era was just getting started, my parents' generation had hopes that we (black Boomer children) would be the first generation that would enjoy the fruit of the American Dream, and they were determined that we would be ready.

Our teachers lived in our neighborhood. They were friends and acquaintances of our parents. They were members of the same social clubs, sororities, and fraternities. My first grade teacher was my mother's best friend. The school principal was our Sundy School superintendent. One music teacher played piano in our church, the other music teacher played piano in the church farther down the street. If we acted up in school, our parents would know it by Sunday afternoon.

Our parents and teachers were in lock-step. They knew each other, they trusted each other. No, our parents didn't help us with homework, but they made sure we did it. We didn't get the new books like the white kids did, but our teachers went to the conferences, stole material for the best new concepts like bandits, and wore out the mimeograph machines. I was getting abstract math, like Venn diagrams, by third grade.

If you've seen the movie "Hidden Figures," look at the community where those women lived. That's culture, despite racism.
Interesting post. Thanks for sharing that with us.
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Old 12-11-2023, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,917 posts, read 24,424,171 times
Reputation: 33006
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
When you "told it like it was," did you take any personal responsibility for student failures? Or assign responsibility to any faculty members?

Nevermind; everyone on this board already knows the answer.
No, actually you don't know.

Yes, when you publicly say that we fell down in some particular area, that is taking personal responsibility.
When you develop departmental work plans that address the deficiencies -- and your scores improve the next year -- yes, you've taken personal responsibilities.
When you sit down with a teacher and worked with them to determine why there's a deficiency -- even to the point of saying, "If things don't improve...", then you've taken personal responsibility.
When you call in teacher coaches to work with a teacher to develop an improvement plan, then yes, you've taken personal responsibility.
When you put a teacher on the evaluation cycle who is not scheduled to be evaluated, yes, you've taken personal responsibility.

So, frankly, you don't know squat.
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Old 12-11-2023, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,078 posts, read 7,543,778 times
Reputation: 9819
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
somewhat related, there is the list of Columbia University students receiving their Master's degrees in Statistics from a few years ago:
2006, obtaining a domestic STEM MS-MA almost didn't pencil out.
DS took the option for a foreign university (well known, a top tier, world ranked) to obtain his master's. ...on full ride. If no scholarship, then it was into the workforce for him. He was super confident and never interviewed for jobs.

For foreign students, a US Master's is a way to prove their ability.
Also, at least $3million to Columbia (2013 cohort above). All class time.
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Old 12-11-2023, 10:36 AM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,349 posts, read 13,973,337 times
Reputation: 18284
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Why is it solely the fault of teachers and administrators when kids don't do well in school?

Why aren't parents equally or more responsible?
Parents don't seem to be responsible for a lot of things these days.
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Old 12-11-2023, 12:23 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,687,362 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
It's the phones, not the computers.
It is both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
When you "told it like it was," did you take any personal responsibility for student failures? Or assign responsibility to any faculty members?

Nevermind; everyone on this board already knows the answer.
When a principal takes personal responsibility for a student's failure, it typically means asking the teacher what can he/she do to pass this student.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Why is it solely the fault of teachers and administrators when kids don't do well in school?

Why aren't parents equally or more responsible?
You can change what goes on in schools, but you can't change what goes on at home.
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Old 12-11-2023, 01:54 PM
 
7,899 posts, read 3,872,973 times
Reputation: 14891
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Why is it solely the fault of teachers and administrators when kids don't do well in school?

Why aren't parents equally or more responsible?
If you re-read my post, you'll note I never said or implied "solely."
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Old 12-11-2023, 02:02 PM
 
7,899 posts, read 3,872,973 times
Reputation: 14891
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No, actually you don't know.
Righhhhhhhht.



Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Yes, when you publicly say that we fell down in some particular area, that is taking personal responsibility.
When you develop departmental work plans that address the deficiencies -- and your scores improve the next year -- yes, you've taken personal responsibilities.
When you sit down with a teacher and worked with them to determine why there's a deficiency -- even to the point of saying, "If things don't improve...", then you've taken personal responsibility.
When you call in teacher coaches to work with a teacher to develop an improvement plan, then yes, you've taken personal responsibility.
When you put a teacher on the evaluation cycle who is not scheduled to be evaluated, yes, you've taken personal responsibility.

So, frankly, you don't know squat.
Here's what everyone who reads your post knows: Nowhere did you use "I" as in the first person singular. Nowhere did you use "we" as in first person plural.

And, of course, we all know how you'll respond...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
People like you ...

... go ahead & say "deplorables."
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Old 12-11-2023, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,917 posts, read 24,424,171 times
Reputation: 33006
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
If you re-read my post, you'll note I never said or implied "solely."
But that did seem to be the implication.
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