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Old 12-11-2023, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Righhhhhhhht.





Here's what everyone who reads your post knows: Nowhere did you use "I" as in the first person singular. Nowhere did you use "we" as in first person plural.

And, of course, we all know how you'll respond...




... go ahead & say "deplorables."
That's the second time you've said that. Well, have it your way.
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Old 12-11-2023, 04:14 PM
 
12,846 posts, read 9,045,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
^P#375.
The attribution belongs to markg91359. He writes better.
Apologies for the misattribution.
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Old 12-11-2023, 04:23 PM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,298,103 times
Reputation: 45727
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
If you re-read my post, you'll note I never said or implied "solely."
What percent of responsibility would you put on teachers for students not learning in school? At the most, I blame the system about 40%. The other 60% is on parents.

As a parent, I did all sorts of things. In grade school my son was struggling with reading and language so we enrolled in a special summer program that I had to drive him about forty miles a day round trip for. DW and I had to go over various programmed learnings with him too. We enrolled our daughter in other summer programs as well. We gave them a special place to do homework and made sure that it got done. Than there were Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts along with numerous trips and activities that had educational purposes. We attended parent/teacher conferences and took responsibility for contacting the teacher (rather than visa versa) when there was a problem. We made a point of speaking with correct grammar around the kids and correcting them when they did not.

I'll go on. When there were health issues like sicknesses or injuries those were addressed ASAP. The kids got good dentistry too.

I don't want a medal for parenting. My point is simply that for children to succeed in school parents have to be willing to do their part. We did ours. I suspect many parents do not do theirs. Those failures account for much of the reason why Johnny cannot read or do Algebra.
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Old 12-11-2023, 05:23 PM
 
12,846 posts, read 9,045,657 times
Reputation: 34914
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
What percent of responsibility would you put on teachers for students not learning in school? At the most, I blame the system about 40%. The other 60% is on parents.

As a parent, I did all sorts of things. In grade school my son was struggling with reading and language so we enrolled in a special summer program that I had to drive him about forty miles a day round trip for. DW and I had to go over various programmed learnings with him too. We enrolled our daughter in other summer programs as well. We gave them a special place to do homework and made sure that it got done. Than there were Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts along with numerous trips and activities that had educational purposes. We attended parent/teacher conferences and took responsibility for contacting the teacher (rather than visa versa) when there was a problem. We made a point of speaking with correct grammar around the kids and correcting them when they did not.

I'll go on. When there were health issues like sicknesses or injuries those were addressed ASAP. The kids got good dentistry too.

I don't want a medal for parenting. My point is simply that for children to succeed in school parents have to be willing to do their part. We did ours. I suspect many parents do not do theirs. Those failures account for much of the reason why Johnny cannot read or do Algebra.
I believe the "blame the parents" is overstated in the general sense. Yes, there are those parents who are bad parents and deserve 100% of the blame. And another bunch that are 70%-80-90%. But the reality is they are just a small percentage of the parents. Most parents are trying to be good parents and do the right thing education wise toward their children. Based on you answer to how you raised yours, you did your part and more. Like the vast majority of parents out there. So why do you or they deserve 60% of the blame?

We raised our kids through much the same steps you listed. Some parents even went way beyond, constantly at the school, paying for additional classes, summer study, etc to maximize their kids chances of success. Much of what they were paying for, and what we and other parents tried, was designed to make up for the deficiencies in the education they were getting at school system. No matter how we want to cut it, ultimately the education system is 100% responsible for providing what they are paid to provide. But so many of us as parents aren't getting that from the school system.
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Old 12-11-2023, 05:36 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,560 posts, read 28,652,113 times
Reputation: 25153
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I believe the "blame the parents" is overstated in the general sense. Yes, there are those parents who are bad parents and deserve 100% of the blame. And another bunch that are 70%-80-90%.

But the reality is they are just a small percentage of the parents. Most parents are trying to be good parents and do the right thing education wise toward their children.
A disproportionate number of low-performing students live in single-parent households.

It is difficult for a single parent (who is usually the mother) to help or motivate her children to do well in school.

That is really what's happening on a societal level.
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Old 12-11-2023, 05:59 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,658,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I believe the "blame the parents" is overstated in the general sense. Yes, there are those parents who are bad parents and deserve 100% of the blame. And another bunch that are 70%-80-90%. But the reality is they are just a small percentage of the parents. Most parents are trying to be good parents and do the right thing education wise toward their children. Based on you answer to how you raised yours, you did your part and more. Like the vast majority of parents out there. So why do you or they deserve 60% of the blame?
No, you have no idea of the reality of today's world. The home situation of many of these kids is really bad. I have heard numerous HS students make comments like, "I live with my mom and her boyfriend during the week and with my dad and his girlfriend on weekends. I hate my mom's boyfriend, etc.

I once overheard a boy saying that his mom robbed a bank branch. I tried to clarify with him, and he said, "Yeah, she was strung out on drugs."

I coached a boy who lived with his single mother. She couldn't control him and I later saw in the newspaper that he was missing and hadn't been seen in a couple weeks. I doubt he ever graduated from high school.

I once had a boy in class who moved into the school district. He showed up one time. The guidance office told me he was basically the head of the household. I called the mother about him not coming to school and she just handed the phone to him. He officially dropped out of school when he turned 17.

These cases are not that unusual. It seems around half the students I encounter are living with one parent and their boy/girlfriend or step-parent. The boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't have a vested interest in being a good parent.
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Old 12-11-2023, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
Reputation: 32935
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I believe the "blame the parents" is overstated in the general sense. Yes, there are those parents who are bad parents and deserve 100% of the blame. And another bunch that are 70%-80-90%. But the reality is they are just a small percentage of the parents. Most parents are trying to be good parents and do the right thing education wise toward their children. Based on you answer to how you raised yours, you did your part and more. Like the vast majority of parents out there. So why do you or they deserve 60% of the blame?

We raised our kids through much the same steps you listed. Some parents even went way beyond, constantly at the school, paying for additional classes, summer study, etc to maximize their kids chances of success. Much of what they were paying for, and what we and other parents tried, was designed to make up for the deficiencies in the education they were getting at school system. No matter how we want to cut it, ultimately the education system is 100% responsible for providing what they are paid to provide. But so many of us as parents aren't getting that from the school system.
Where do you come up with those numbers? NCLBBP?
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Old 12-11-2023, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
Reputation: 32935
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
No, you have no idea of the reality of today's world. The home situation of many of these kids is really bad. I have heard numerous HS students make comments like, "I live with my mom and her boyfriend during the week and with my dad and his girlfriend on weekends. I hate my mom's boyfriend, etc.

I once overheard a boy saying that his mom robbed a bank branch. I tried to clarify with him, and he said, "Yeah, she was strung out on drugs."

I coached a boy who lived with his single mother. She couldn't control him and I later saw in the newspaper that he was missing and hadn't been seen in a couple weeks. I doubt he ever graduated from high school.

I once had a boy in class who moved into the school district. He showed up one time. The guidance office told me he was basically the head of the household. I called the mother about him not coming to school and she just handed the phone to him. He officially dropped out of school when he turned 17.

These cases are not that unusual. It seems around half the students I encounter are living with one parent and their boy/girlfriend or step-parent. The boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't have a vested interest in being a good parent.
There are some who assume it's always the poor Black or Latino student who is living in far less than ideal situations. And that's sometimes true. But some of the sad situations I have seen have been the way some kids are treated whose parents are actually somewhat rich, famous, or powerful. It's just a different type of emotional poverty.
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Old 12-11-2023, 09:06 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,658,899 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
There are some who assume it's always the poor Black or Latino student who is living in far less than ideal situations. And that's sometimes true. But some of the sad situations I have seen have been the way some kids are treated whose parents are actually somewhat rich, famous, or powerful. It's just a different type of emotional poverty.
All the students I was describing are white.
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Old 12-11-2023, 09:10 PM
 
12,846 posts, read 9,045,657 times
Reputation: 34914
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
No, you have no idea of the reality of today's world. The home situation of many of these kids is really bad. I have heard numerous HS students make comments like, "I live with my mom and her boyfriend during the week and with my dad and his girlfriend on weekends. I hate my mom's boyfriend, etc.

I once overheard a boy saying that his mom robbed a bank branch. I tried to clarify with him, and he said, "Yeah, she was strung out on drugs."

I coached a boy who lived with his single mother. She couldn't control him and I later saw in the newspaper that he was missing and hadn't been seen in a couple weeks. I doubt he ever graduated from high school.

I once had a boy in class who moved into the school district. He showed up one time. The guidance office told me he was basically the head of the household. I called the mother about him not coming to school and she just handed the phone to him. He officially dropped out of school when he turned 17.

These cases are not that unusual. It seems around half the students I encounter are living with one parent and their boy/girlfriend or step-parent. The boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't have a vested interest in being a good parent.
69% of American school students live in two parent households. Roughly 23% in single family homes. 14.5% live in poverty. (Census Bureau) Roughly 62% of recent graduates enrolled in college (BLS) but only 62% of those will graduate in six years (NCES) with about 38% of the adult population being college graduates. Don't have good statistics handy on US vocational ed but for Tennessee, roughly 20% enrolled in vocational or community college.

No one denies situations as you describe exist. But they simply are not the vast majority of families. Extreme examples certainly have more emotional appeal than saying a kid went to school, got good, but average grades, graduated, got a job, etc, but don't provide any support for the typical kids.
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