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Old 12-17-2023, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,270,853 times
Reputation: 32913

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I’m not sure whether the schools and educational system in this country have accepted the reality that inequality in educational outcomes is inevitable.

It’s a matter for debate.
My experience has been that the bolded is too often given into.

Almost anyone can teacher the "easy" kids.
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Old 12-17-2023, 09:41 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,004,579 times
Reputation: 46171
And... Apparently No One (professionals) can figure out how to raise the USA average competitive international test scores
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Old 12-17-2023, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,062 posts, read 7,497,585 times
Reputation: 9788
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
it's all numbers. All we can do is to present opportunities to those who can and to those who will.
Some will and Some won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
And... Apparently No One (professionals) can figure out how to raise the USA average competitive international test scores
That's what I've saying (1st quote)
[too many have me on "ignore"]

there have been some deep depths and high highs in the STEM fields. The employment oscillation in any one STEM field is daunting.
GoodLuck
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Old 12-17-2023, 11:09 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,004,579 times
Reputation: 46171
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime
it's all numbers. All we can do is to present opportunities to those who can and to those who will.
Some will and Some won't.
As an employer it is very helpful to have the correct information..."Some will and Some won't", as you put a lot of effort into the hiring process, and it's really nice to have a reasonable result. But often we get tricked (by the scores / 'accomplishments', in an academic environment, yet falling on their face in REAL life. (I'e. no teacher / parent / academic score to prop them up).

Thus many companies have gone the intern / temp agency route. Which is time consuming and costly. If only we could depend on the TRUTH. (being true performance, rather than an orchestrated achievement).

actual WORK experience carries much more weight than grades, internships, test scores, accomplishments (?).

Farm kids filter to the top pretty fast, but no guarantees.

Hands on demonstration of problem solving would be a good interview measure. (for some who are quick thinkers). Some of your best solutions, must be slept on. Which makes followup of interviews interesting. For top candidates, I like to do a 'post-screening' a couple days later to validate alignment.
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Old 12-18-2023, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
975 posts, read 535,284 times
Reputation: 2256
I live in a city that is home to one big national lab and close to the Los Alamos National Lab, as well as an air force base. It is also the city where that reprobate Bill Gates built his first computer in his mother's garage. We have always had public schools with science programs sponsored by the labs. In the 60's my favorite school day every month was when some scientist came and taught us about atoms or electricity or some other introduction to science we weren't getting in our regular science class. But that was the 60's. Now we have STEM charter schools for elementary, middle school and high school We even have on called Data High that has a focus on computer science. Data High has been around almost 20 years. So maybe it depends on the area you live in but yes, I think public schools here are doing their best to inspire science study. This city has the most PHD's per capita in the country. It is a small city with two major national labs and a university that is known for having excellent physics and engineering departments.
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Old 12-18-2023, 09:17 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,053 posts, read 18,231,767 times
Reputation: 34936
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
I live in a city that is home to one big national lab and close to the Los Alamos National Lab, as well as an air force base. It is also the city where that reprobate Bill Gates built his first computer in his mother's garage. We have always had public schools with science programs sponsored by the labs. In the 60's my favorite school day every month was when some scientist came and taught us about atoms or electricity or some other introduction to science we weren't getting in our regular science class. But that was the 60's. Now we have STEM charter schools for elementary, middle school and high school We even have on called Data High that has a focus on computer science. Data High has been around almost 20 years. So maybe it depends on the area you live in but yes, I think public schools here are doing their best to inspire science study. This city has the most PHD's per capita in the country. It is a small city with two major national labs and a university that is known for having excellent physics and engineering departments.
That area is an exception. A rather good one though.
I worked on several projects with the folks in LANL when I was still working.
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Old 12-18-2023, 09:44 AM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,033,724 times
Reputation: 34894
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
I live in a city that is home to one big national lab and close to the Los Alamos National Lab, as well as an air force base. It is also the city where that reprobate Bill Gates built his first computer in his mother's garage. We have always had public schools with science programs sponsored by the labs. In the 60's my favorite school day every month was when some scientist came and taught us about atoms or electricity or some other introduction to science we weren't getting in our regular science class. But that was the 60's. Now we have STEM charter schools for elementary, middle school and high school We even have on called Data High that has a focus on computer science. Data High has been around almost 20 years. So maybe it depends on the area you live in but yes, I think public schools here are doing their best to inspire science study. This city has the most PHD's per capita in the country. It is a small city with two major national labs and a university that is known for having excellent physics and engineering departments.
Yes, it very much depends on the area you live in. And the time period/era as well. You are in an area with a large STEM population. They know the value of STEM and understand what it takes to get there. It gets instilled in their kids and culture early on.

I also live in an area with a large lab and have done work with Sandia, AFRL, and LANL over the years. Our area also had a population like that. Perhaps even more bimodal since it was predominately rural except for the lab.

But even within this small area, there are wide extremes of how the schools approach STEM. Almost personality dependent on who is Superintendent of schools in a particular district and time. Over the last 25 years we've watched local districts and schools embrace STEM and then discard it like a hot potato, investing heavily in STEM equipment; even setting up special traveling STEM teams with trucks of equipment to take to individual schools, only to discard all that investment and fire those STEM teachers with a change of admins. I've also seen a lot of investment over STEM for appearance's sake (keyboarding in kindergarten gets TV coverage) while the fundamentals of math and science are much less glamorous and get ignored.

In the end STEM becomes a dog and pony show of "incorporating tech into the classroom" for the media, not an educational outcome.
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,270,853 times
Reputation: 32913
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
I live in a city that is home to one big national lab and close to the Los Alamos National Lab, as well as an air force base. It is also the city where that reprobate Bill Gates built his first computer in his mother's garage. We have always had public schools with science programs sponsored by the labs. In the 60's my favorite school day every month was when some scientist came and taught us about atoms or electricity or some other introduction to science we weren't getting in our regular science class. But that was the 60's. Now we have STEM charter schools for elementary, middle school and high school We even have on called Data High that has a focus on computer science. Data High has been around almost 20 years. So maybe it depends on the area you live in but yes, I think public schools here are doing their best to inspire science study. This city has the most PHD's per capita in the country. It is a small city with two major national labs and a university that is known for having excellent physics and engineering departments.
Thank you for that post...particularly the bolded. It is not the only place in the country supporting science. Here's another with which I'm very familiar:

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...chnology-20461
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,062 posts, read 7,497,585 times
Reputation: 9788
NPR had a Morning Edition, 12/18/2023 segment on the attempt to stimulate HS and other older people to be chip manufacturing technicians.
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:57 AM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,033,724 times
Reputation: 34894
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Thank you for that post...particularly the bolded. It is not the only place in the country supporting science. Here's another with which I'm very familiar:

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...chnology-20461
Thank you for the link. Do you know how to get the raw data?

Questions I have is how fast does the performance drop off from the top schools? As a quick look using the lists on their site, it appears to drop quickly beyond the top 100 or so schools, leaving the remaining 17000 scoring lower to much lower. The other question is they really seem over score AP/IB in the quality score given that it's included in several of the sub scores and that many high school students are not skipping AP and taking dual enrollment classes instead which were not included in the methodology that I could see.
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