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Old 01-19-2024, 09:02 AM
 
7,320 posts, read 4,111,948 times
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Quote:
The annual Best Countries Report, conducted by US News and World Report, BAV Group, and the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.

The education portion of the survey compiles scores from three equally-weighted attributes: a well-developed public education system, would consider attending university there, and provides top-quality education. As of 2023, the top ten countries based on education rankings are:

United States
United Kingdom
Germany
Canada
France
Japan
Switzerland
Australia
Sweden
Denmark

Countries with the Best Educational Systems - 2020 Global Citizens for Human Rights

Denmark
Finland
Japan
Canada
Sweden
Germany
Israel
Netherlands
Singapore
South Korea

One of the most-reviewed studies regarding education around the world involved 470,000 fifteen-year-old students. Each student was administered tests in math, science, and reading similar to the SAT or ACT exams (standardized tests used for college admissions in the U.S.) These exam scores were later compiled to determine each country's average score for each of the three subjects. Based on this study, China received the highest scores, followed by Korea, Finland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, Australia and the Netherlands.

Which country ranks first in education?

Graduation, enrollment totals, and literacy rates determine the overall education ranking. Germany ranks first in education with 99% literacy and a 0.94 ranking.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country
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Old 01-19-2024, 09:57 AM
 
28,660 posts, read 18,761,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Here is an important question. WHY? And do not say welfare, because as you say, single parenthood rates have been on the rise since the 1950s, long before any so-called welfare state.
Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) began in 1939 with the purpose of keeping white mothers out of the workforce during the Depression Era. They got the aid even if their unemployed husbands were in the house. American entrance into WWII and the workforce changes wrought by the war were not contemplated at the time.

I specified "white mothers" because black mothers did not receive the aid in most states (although it was a government program, it was managed by the states). Black mothers were considered already in the workforce, and in many states the intention was to keep them in the work force as a cheap labor resource, both domestic and commercial.

The aid was extended to black mothers in the latter years of the Eisenhower Administration, prior to the Civil Rights Act and prior to the Johnson Administration. However, at that same time many states established the notorious "no man in the house rule."
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Old 01-19-2024, 03:03 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,054 posts, read 18,216,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post

There was also this in your link: (we fall behind in PISA. 35/40 countries)
The U.S., despite ranking high in educational system surveys, falls behind in math and science scores compared to many other countries.
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Old 01-19-2024, 03:13 PM
 
Location: WA
5,438 posts, read 7,723,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
There was also this in your link: (we fall behind in PISA. 35/40 countries)
The U.S., despite ranking high in educational system surveys, falls behind in math and science scores compared to many other countries.
That is because we are a more unequal society than most if not all that we are being compared to.

What the US really has is a problem educating Black and Hispanic children. This is extremely well known. Among countries of 10 million or more, the US scores for white and Asian kids are the highest in the world in reading and fourth highest in math (behind Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea). And in all cases they are substantially higher than in Finland which is often touted as some sort of education miracle.

Elite Asian families know what they are doing when they send their kids to the US to be educated in American public schools instead of back home in Korea or China.



and

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Old 01-20-2024, 09:15 AM
 
7,320 posts, read 4,111,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
That is because we are a more unequal society than most if not all that we are being compared to.

What the US really has is a problem educating Black and Hispanic children. This is extremely well known. Among countries of 10 million or more, the US scores for white and Asian kids are the highest in the world in reading and fourth highest in math (behind Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea). And in all cases they are substantially higher than in Finland which is often touted as some sort of education miracle.

Elite Asian families know what they are doing when they send their kids to the US to be educated in American public schools instead of back home in Korea or China.
It's all true!

Other countries have a homogeneous culture where children are born to married couples.

Korea - 2.5%, China - 2.5%, Germany - 33.1%, Poland - 26.4%, Japan - 2.4%

In Scandinavia countries are closer to 50%. https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ths-by-country

However, Scandinavian parents marry after the birth of their children.

Quote:
To many Americans, the widespread Nordic practice of waiting until one has a child or two to get married—or not getting formally married at all—seems strange. But there are various reasons Scandinavian couples decide to wait. Putting a priority on education, career, or buying an apartment are some of the reasons.
https://www.nordicreach.com/its_about/lifestyle/135/

United States has 40.5% of children born to single mothers with little to no relationship with the father. About 5% of women have children with multiple men. It's the chaos of these households which affect the overall US educational scores. These kids aren't educated in science and engineering or literature, history, social studies either. Frankly, they can't be until we raise the literacy rates.

Quote:
Nationwide, on average, 79% of U.S. adults are literate in 2022. 21% of adults in the US are illiterate in 2022. 54% of adults have a literacy below sixth-grade level. 21% of Americans 18 and older are illiterate in 2022. Throughout the US, there were 66% of children in the fourth grade couldn't read well in 2013.
https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/re...te%20in%202022.

If 54% of adults have a literacy rate below the sixth grade level, we are in more trouble than just science and engineering.
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Old 01-20-2024, 12:35 PM
 
19,767 posts, read 18,050,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
That is because we are a more unequal society than most if not all that we are being compared to.

What the US really has is a problem educating Black and Hispanic children. This is extremely well known. Among countries of 10 million or more, the US scores for white and Asian kids are the highest in the world in reading and fourth highest in math (behind Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea). And in all cases they are substantially higher than in Finland which is often touted as some sort of education miracle.

Elite Asian families know what they are doing when they send their kids to the US to be educated in American public schools instead of back home in Korea or China.



and
Thanks for posting that.

A. Finland is touted as some sort of K-12 educational miracle because they had maybe the worst performing K-12 system in the first world until the '70s. Then on the fly Finland's people summoned the will to get rid of most poor teachers, ramp up expectations for students and even more so teachers* morphing outcomes from among the worst to among the best as it were.

*Most US teachers are bottom 1/3 college graduates. Virtually all Finnish teachers are top 25% college grads.

B. No question in the US we have a melange of racial and cultural outcome bifurcation regarding K-12.
IMO what we need to do is stop pretending the answer is to spend more money per kid.

B1. The Minnesota Transracial Studies demonstrated that younger black kids who moved into white homes in short order performed almost exactly as well as their white peers with two caveats. A. when said black kids entered high school they reverted. B. when said black kids left white households they reverted.

C. I'll find the link in a minute, however, as posted elsewhere on CD/today a long-range study shows Texas has better closed the white/black K-12 and even into college achievement gaps than any other state....and of course TX is pilloried by teacher's groups for not spending enough per K-12 pupil.
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Old 01-20-2024, 01:12 PM
 
Location: WA
5,438 posts, read 7,723,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Thanks for posting that. C. I'll find the link in a minute, however, as posted elsewhere on CD/today a long-range study shows Texas has better closed the white/black K-12 and even into college achievement gaps than any other state....and of course TX is pilloried by teacher's groups for not spending enough per K-12 pupil.
It very much depends on what metric you are using:
  • graduation rates
  • elementary math and reading scores
  • middle school math and reading scores
  • high school math and reading scores
  • MS or HS science scores
  • SAT/ACT scores
  • etc.

You can cherry pick and find different metrics that show different states doing better or worse. I've taught in Texas and they do particularly well with graduation rates because state law prohibits dropping out of HS before age 18 and they will actually take parents to court for truancy. Other states let kids drop out at age 16 with very little pushback.

On the other hand, Texas does less well than many other states on actual test scores. So they are better at keeping kids in school but not as good at actually educating them when they have them in school.

But yes, find that statistic you are referencing and show us what it actually is.
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Old 01-20-2024, 01:16 PM
 
19,767 posts, read 18,050,613 times
Reputation: 17250
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
It very much depends on what metric you are using:
  • graduation rates
  • elementary math and reading scores
  • middle school math and reading scores
  • high school math and reading scores
  • MS or HS science scores
  • SAT/ACT scores
  • etc.

You can cherry pick and find different metrics that show different states doing better or worse. I've taught in Texas and they do particularly well with graduation rates because state law prohibits dropping out of HS before age 18 and they will actually take parents to court for truancy. Other states let kids drop out at age 16 with very little pushback.

On the other hand, Texas does less well than many other states on actual test scores. So they are better at keeping kids in school but not as good at actually educating them when they have them in school.

But yes, find that statistic you are referencing and show us what it actually is.
I'm cheery picking nothing. Just relaying information.

ETA - Here it is. And I made an error on the standardized score gap closure over time.......TX is #11 not #1, not enough coffee at that point I guess.

https://sanantonio.culturemap.com/ne...hange-ranking/


___________

Also I've read, more than once, SAT and ACT scores per state smoothed by ESL and racial metrics.......TX does fine. Usually high aggregate test scores are a proxy from whiteness + "Asianness" and less about K-12 quality and per pupil spending.

Last edited by EDS_; 01-20-2024 at 01:28 PM..
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Old 01-20-2024, 01:52 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,054 posts, read 18,216,027 times
Reputation: 34926
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
That is because we are a more unequal society than most if not all that we are being compared to.

What the US really has is a problem educating Black and Hispanic children. This is extremely well known. Among countries of 10 million or more, the US scores for white and Asian kids are the highest in the world in reading and fourth highest in math (behind Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea). And in all cases they are substantially higher than in Finland which is often touted as some sort of education miracle.

Elite Asian families know what they are doing when they send their kids to the US to be educated in American public schools instead of back home in Korea or China.



and
Out of 40 countries 34 are ahead of us. Math is math.

Maybe don't hand kids calculators; have them use their brains.
Maybe have kids write essays, papers on physical paper with a pen.
Have kids read the book instead of listening to the audio version and told to "follow along in the book"

The computer has become a huge crutch in school.
I've seen so many teachers just send the kids to their computers for the entire class..over and over and over.
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Old 01-20-2024, 02:53 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,647,904 times
Reputation: 12699
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Out of 40 countries 34 are ahead of us. Math is math.

Maybe don't hand kids calculators; have them use their brains.
Maybe have kids write essays, papers on physical paper with a pen.
Have kids read the book instead of listening to the audio version and told to "follow along in the book"

The computer has become a huge crutch in school.
I've seen so many teachers just send the kids to their computers for the entire class..over and over and over.
Some good points. Regarding calculators, I've seen middle school students with a problem like 3x=6, solve for x, and they pull out their calculator.

Regarding reading the book, I've seen English classes where they don't even follow along in the book. They just watch the movie and don't bother with the book.
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