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Old 01-26-2024, 08:19 AM
 
8,099 posts, read 4,008,230 times
Reputation: 15172

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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
It's not lack of intelligence.
Do you have any evidence to support your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
I would say ...
While your off-the-top-of your head folksy musings might be of minor interest to a few, the question remains - do you have any evidence to support your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
... in vast segments of society people get trapped ...
I don't think that word means what you seem to think it means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
...in poverty, single parenting, debt, family obligations, and all kinds of things that make getting a legitimate college education a huge hurdle.
If your point is that people make rational choices that sometimes close off future alternatives and options, that is obvious even to not particularly bright 10-year-olds. Those same not particularly bright 10-year-olds also know they can make good decisions if they think about the consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
...So yes, the lack of a social safety net is a big part for certain.
When I mentioned the social safety net, it was in a different context that you missed. The USA has a broad, deep and overly generous social safety net. Many of those not particularly bright 10 year olds have learned the adults in their lives do not need to work in order to have food, shelter, clothing, cellular telephones, cars, and the like.
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Old 01-26-2024, 08:39 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,710 posts, read 28,831,990 times
Reputation: 25332
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
It's not about spending. It's about what the money buys.

Most of the US budget for social welfare spending goes to two programs: Medicare and Social Security. With Medicaid taking third place. None of which do anything to help a young single mom afford college since:

1. The US has no subsidized system of preschool or daycare unlike most other modern countries
2. The US has no subsidized system of before/after school care unlike most other modern countries
3. The US has the highest tuition and fees for public universities in the world
4. The US has incredibly meager parental and family leave requirements for employers compared to the rest of the world
The United States has way higher salaries for people who make it to the upper-middle class compared to most other modern countries.

This is especially true for countries with similarly large populations.
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Old 01-26-2024, 10:30 AM
 
7,458 posts, read 4,232,382 times
Reputation: 16965
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
It's not about spending. It's about what the money buys.

Most of the US budget for social welfare spending goes to two programs: Medicare and Social Security. With Medicaid taking third place. None of which do anything to help a young single mom afford college since:

1. The US has no subsidized system of preschool or daycare unlike most other modern countries
2. The US has no subsidized system of before/after school care unlike most other modern countries
3. The US has the highest tuition and fees for public universities in the world
4. The US has incredibly meager parental and family leave requirements for employers compared to the rest of the world
When my cousin's white, middle class daughter was in college when she got pregnant. Her long term boyfriend refused to marry her because in Florida, she got free tuition, free healthcare and subsidized housing as a single mom. So after the first baby, they had a second baby and he STILL didn't want to marry her. Turns out, he married another woman.

Sorry, benefits for single moms are a two edge sword. The best outcome for any child is married parents.

The US used to have a preschool/daycare solution - it was called grandparents. Whereas the EU, entitles parents to at least 4 months of leave each, of which at least 2 months are paid (in accordance with national rules) and are non-transferable.

A mother leaving her child for a minimum of eight hours a day at four months is crazy. My son didn't even sleep through the night at four months! I couldn't function during the day at four months. In daycare, the babies are given bottles while lying down in cribs. The fluids tend to back up into their ears and as a result, these daycare babies are more prone to ear infections. EU or US, it's a lousy system.. Babies need their mothers.

The US has subsidized preschool for low income children - the Head Start programs. I treasure my time with my preschool children. With subsidized preschool or daycare, there would be too much pressure on stay-at-home moms to return to work.
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Old 01-26-2024, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,097 posts, read 24,599,714 times
Reputation: 33124
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
When my cousin's white, middle class daughter was in college when she got pregnant. Her long term boyfriend refused to marry her because in Florida, she got free tuition, free healthcare and subsidized housing as a single mom. So after the first baby, they had a second baby and he STILL didn't want to marry her. Turns out, he married another woman.

Sorry, benefits for single moms are a two edge sword. The best outcome for any child is married parents.

The US used to have a preschool/daycare solution - it was called grandparents. Whereas the EU, entitles parents to at least 4 months of leave each, of which at least 2 months are paid (in accordance with national rules) and are non-transferable.

A mother leaving her child for a minimum of eight hours a day at four months is crazy. My son didn't even sleep through the night at four months! I couldn't function during the day at four months. In daycare, the babies are given bottles while lying down in cribs. The fluids tend to back up into their ears and as a result, these daycare babies are more prone to ear infections. EU or US, it's a lousy system.. Babies need their mothers.

The US has subsidized preschool for low income children - the Head Start programs. I treasure my time with my preschool children. With subsidized preschool or daycare, there would be too much pressure on stay-at-home moms to return to work.
Not always. Staying together "for the kids" is often a recipe for disaster.
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Old 01-26-2024, 12:55 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,472 posts, read 18,573,805 times
Reputation: 35223
The US is so different...

Globally only 7% of children live in single parent households.
But in the US...23% of children do.

The US has their own unique set of problems.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stor...t%20households.
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Old 01-26-2024, 04:49 PM
 
Location: WA
5,514 posts, read 7,815,578 times
Reputation: 8713
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
When my cousin's white, middle class daughter was in college when she got pregnant. Her long term boyfriend refused to marry her because in Florida, she got free tuition, free healthcare and subsidized housing as a single mom. So after the first baby, they had a second baby and he STILL didn't want to marry her. Turns out, he married another woman.

Sorry, benefits for single moms are a two edge sword. The best outcome for any child is married parents.

The US used to have a preschool/daycare solution - it was called grandparents. Whereas the EU, entitles parents to at least 4 months of leave each, of which at least 2 months are paid (in accordance with national rules) and are non-transferable.

A mother leaving her child for a minimum of eight hours a day at four months is crazy. My son didn't even sleep through the night at four months! I couldn't function during the day at four months. In daycare, the babies are given bottles while lying down in cribs. The fluids tend to back up into their ears and as a result, these daycare babies are more prone to ear infections. EU or US, it's a lousy system.. Babies need their mothers.

The US has subsidized preschool for low income children - the Head Start programs. I treasure my time with my preschool children. With subsidized preschool or daycare, there would be too much pressure on stay-at-home moms to return to work.
Theory and reality are too different things.

In many cities around the country there are years-long wait lists for head start programs if they even exist in many neighborhoods, and there are still longer wait lists for subsidized housing. So while your cousin's white middle class daughter may have been able to navigate the system were she lives, that is not necessarily the norm in most places. In fact, wait lists are so long in places like Los Angeles that they closed the wait lists and you have to wait to even get on the waitlist.
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Old 01-26-2024, 08:37 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 18,268,311 times
Reputation: 17412
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
It's not about spending. It's about what the money buys.

Most of the US budget for social welfare spending goes to two programs: Medicare and Social Security. With Medicaid taking third place. None of which do anything to help a young single mom afford college since:

1. The US has no subsidized system of preschool or daycare unlike most other modern countries
2. The US has no subsidized system of before/after school care unlike most other modern countries
3. The US has the highest tuition and fees for public universities in the world
4. The US has incredibly meager parental and family leave requirements for employers compared to the rest of the world

1. There are all kinds of subsidized pre-school and childcare programs.

2. We have all sorts of subsidized before and after school programs.

3. Our high college tuition pays for by far and away the best tertiary educational system on Earth. Young people looking for bargains are free to begin their tertiary schooling at a CC, earn a merit scholarship, earn a need based scholarship at any of the many schools that offer as much. In Dallas and many other places tuition is $0 for those in need. Heck motivated kids in DISD are able to complete their associates degree during high school often for free.

4. I'll have to think about that one.

______________

It is about what the money buys. IMO we spend far, far too much on able bodied adults and not nearly enough on kids.
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Old 01-26-2024, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,097 posts, read 24,599,714 times
Reputation: 33124
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1. There are all kinds of subsidized pre-school and childcare programs.

2. We have all sorts of subsidized before and after school programs.

3. Our high college tuition pays for by far and away the best tertiary educational system on Earth. Young people looking for bargains are free to begin their tertiary schooling at a CC, earn a merit scholarship, earn a need based scholarship at any of the many schools that offer as much. In Dallas and many other places tuition is $0 for those in need. Heck motivated kids in DISD are able to complete their associates degree during high school often for free.

4. I'll have to think about that one.

______________

It is about what the money buys. IMO we spend far, far too much on able bodied adults and not nearly enough on kids.
Just a word about the disparity in what different kids (culturally) experience. I was the VP and principal in the same middle school for 20 years. It was a rather unique school in that we had truly rich kids and truly poor kids. A bit more skewed toward the rich, with lots vey in-between. The rich parents (almost all white) could afford to send their kids to band camp, math camp, science camp, etc., not to mention summer vacations in Europe, the Riviera, and Hawaii. Most of the Black and Latino parents could afford to send their kids to...the local park. It makes a difference.

The part of your post I bolded...I'll just tell you a story. I was the assistant principal at my school when the system finally decided to begin air conditioning the school. It wasn't our school that made the decision, it was the Board Of Education that decided to gradually air condition all the schools. A father came in one day to rant about the decision. He was a professional guy, and I said to him, "Well, don't you work in air conditioning?' "Yeah, but they're just kids". And I'll follow that up with another story. I had been in an auto accident at one point and was (unsuccessfully) sued. When I went to the court house I marveled at the marble and granite, the mahogany (or some other real hardwood), the towering foyer, the beautiful bathrooms...really beautiful, and so forth. All for the criminal justice system. And then I went back to our school and its cinder block structure, water leak stained ceiling tiles, and asbestos floor tiles. But again, they're just kids.
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Old 01-26-2024, 09:53 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 18,268,311 times
Reputation: 17412
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Just a word about the disparity in what different kids (culturally) experience. I was the VP and principal in the same middle school for 20 years. It was a rather unique school in that we had truly rich kids and truly poor kids. A bit more skewed toward the rich, with lots vey in-between. The rich parents (almost all white) could afford to send their kids to band camp, math camp, science camp, etc., not to mention summer vacations in Europe, the Riviera, and Hawaii. Most of the Black and Latino parents could afford to send their kids to...the local park. It makes a difference.

The part of your post I bolded...I'll just tell you a story. I was the assistant principal at my school when the system finally decided to begin air conditioning the school. It wasn't our school that made the decision, it was the Board Of Education that decided to gradually air condition all the schools. A father came in one day to rant about the decision. He was a professional guy, and I said to him, "Well, don't you work in air conditioning?' "Yeah, but they're just kids". And I'll follow that up with another story. I had been in an auto accident at one point and was (unsuccessfully) sued. When I went to the court house I marveled at the marble and granite, the mahogany (or some other real hardwood), the towering foyer, the beautiful bathrooms...really beautiful, and so forth. All for the criminal justice system. And then I went back to our school and its cinder block structure, water leak stained ceiling tiles, and asbestos floor tiles. But again, they're just kids.
The hard truth is we literally subsidize adult drug and alcohol abuse among the poor and nobody bats an eye.



At some point we must wake up and re-route more poorly leveraged social welfare money towards kids. IMO a good place to start would be breakfast, lunch and dinner at school for every kid in need.
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Old 01-26-2024, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,097 posts, read 24,599,714 times
Reputation: 33124
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
The hard truth is we literally subsidize adult drug and alcohol abuse among the poor and nobody bats an eye.



At some point we must wake up and re-route more poorly leveraged social welfare money towards kids. IMO a good place to start would be breakfast, lunch and dinner at school for every kid in need.
And make the food edible!
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