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Old 01-28-2024, 11:23 AM
 
Location: WA
5,438 posts, read 7,723,606 times
Reputation: 8538

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
My best friend and I graduated from high school. I went to college. He became a welder. He never got a "degree," but he did his time working to "master" and took the additional courses to learn welding exotic metal. Through the 70s and 80s he was one of a handful of people who could repair oil drill bits in the field. Oil companies losing thousands of dollars an hour would call him in a panic, not even asking his fee, only asking his immediate availability: "Can we send a helicopter for you right now?" Then he just named his fee.

Yeah, he retired 20 years before I did.

We were both lucky in our own ways having been Boomers in an economy that was still booming for a good part of our working lives.

My children have had it a lot tougher, even with college. In no way can they think of themselves as being irreplaceable at any job they've held. Nobody has ever called them asking, "Can we send a helicopter for you right now?"

Obviously, there is a whole lot of variance in what a person learns and what a person does with what they learn, as well as the current economic environment they're in. If I were just graduating with the same major I graduated with 50 years ago, I'd be unable to live on my own today.

Global labor economy? AI? Computer programming isn't even a safe haven these days. There is no broad one-size-fits-all right answer such as "Just go to college and you'll be able to make a good living."

And nobody is saying that high school is enough without extensive additional technical training.
Yes, but what you are describing is someone at the bleeding high edge of the spectrum. And those kinds of jobs quickly vanish when oil fields are not in production mode. There are other examples of that sort of thing. I used to work with the fishing industry in the Bering Sea. The big factory trawler boats up there use these super high-tech machines to automatically fillet and process pollock made by Baader in Germany. If one breaks down they are losing tens of thousands of dollars per day or hour. And they will fly Baader techs out from Germany or Seattle by float plain or helecopter.

But that doesn't mean going into fish processing is a lucrative career. It means that there are a few highly-paid specialists who are 0.1% of the workforce in the fish processing industry.
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Old 01-28-2024, 12:57 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,687 posts, read 57,985,728 times
Reputation: 46166
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Yes, but what you are describing is someone at the bleeding high edge of the spectrum. ...
Thus... It can be a good idea to diversify your skillset and your educational attainment, and 'youth' is an excellent time to do that, especially if you have no use or need for HS. As TD has mentioned we have a very good tech center option in our region. Serving 10 local school districts - https://www.cascadiatechnicalacademy...cascadia-tech/

Go get your tech skills
Get a skilled job while young and able (and grow into a 1%'r)
While you're at it, grow your academic skill set (often paid and sponsored by your employer)

so... when the industry turns weak (or you do) You have options.
1) Be self employed
2) rotate into another skilled area
3) Be a manager / owner
4) Know the business side and transition into management / finance / sourcing / HR...
5) Use your parallel education to take a professional position.

I went back and forth from Skilled to Professional 5x during my career, and my employer knew my capabilities and areas of expertise (they had paid for them). I was approached for many excellent opportunities over a wide scope of tasks and company needs. Because many people are stuck in a rut (1-2 specialties)

Someone who has actually worked skilled trades at a high level has had unique exposure that can be very valuble career experience, especially in this age of 'vapor ware'. (Theory only... heard about it, learned about it, but never DONE it... )

Lots of avenues in the USA, (we're very lucky)

The German, Austrian, and Swiss adult youth I was with this yr were not so availed. (very specifically directed into niche skills or academics). Less that 1/2 were satisfied with their options and availability to career choices. Fortunately they are also very interested and capable of learning and interested in contributing to learning new careers, skills and academics. It is very evident when traveling international. You will meet a lot of interesting and resourceful youth. Most are not from USA, and those who are.... are on travel / vacation mode, where the majority of youth from other countries are interested in engaging with adults, learning, volunteering, experiencing new tasks and cultures. They are very engaging. USA youth... not so much. They want to be entertained and provided for. (similar to their school / entitlement experiences). You find this out when hiring them also.

Social differences are quite evident.
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Old 01-28-2024, 01:54 PM
 
28,660 posts, read 18,761,634 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Yes, but what you are describing is someone at the bleeding high edge of the spectrum. And those kinds of jobs quickly vanish when oil fields are not in production mode. There are other examples of that sort of thing. I used to work with the fishing industry in the Bering Sea. The big factory trawler boats up there use these super high-tech machines to automatically fillet and process pollock made by Baader in Germany. If one breaks down they are losing tens of thousands of dollars per day or hour. And they will fly Baader techs out from Germany or Seattle by float plain or helecopter.

But that doesn't mean going into fish processing is a lucrative career. It means that there are a few highly-paid specialists who are 0.1% of the workforce in the fish processing industry.
That's why I said:

Quote:
Obviously, there is a whole lot of variance in what a person learns and what a person does with what they learn, as well as the current economic environment they're in. If I were just graduating with the same major I graduated with 50 years ago, I'd be unable to live on my own today.
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Old 01-28-2024, 01:56 PM
 
28,660 posts, read 18,761,634 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Thus... It can be a good idea to diversify your skillset and your educational attainment, and 'youth' is an excellent time to do that, especially if you have no use or need for HS. As TD has mentioned we have a very good tech center option in our region. Serving 10 local school districts - https://www.cascadiatechnicalacademy...cascadia-tech/

Go get your tech skills
Get a skilled job while young and able (and grow into a 1%'r)
While you're at it, grow your academic skill set (often paid and sponsored by your employer)

so... when the industry turns weak (or you do) You have options.
1) Be self employed
2) rotate into another skilled area
3) Be a manager / owner
4) Know the business side and transition into management / finance / sourcing / HR...
5) Use your parallel education to take a professional position.

I went back and forth from Skilled to Professional 5x during my career, and my employer knew my capabilities and areas of expertise (they had paid for them). I was approached for many excellent opportunities over a wide scope of tasks and company needs. Because many people are stuck in a rut (1-2 specialties)

Someone who has actually worked skilled trades at a high level has had unique exposure that can be very valuble career experience, especially in this age of 'vapor ware'. (Theory only... heard about it, learned about it, but never DONE it... )

Lots of avenues in the USA, (we're very lucky)

.
This is the sometimes inadvertent path an American youth goes through by the military GI Bill route.
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Old 01-28-2024, 05:38 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,350 posts, read 13,922,565 times
Reputation: 18267
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Oh yes, certainly... it's the lack of money spent on USA education.
(More excuses, of course... but please don't look in the mirror as to how administrators choose to allocate their abundant riches)

These accomplished STEM contributors often had nothing (0) for funding.

Sometimes you need to work with what you have. inspiring youth to go into science and engineering?

Scientists;
Benjamin Banneker
first African-American scientist

Reid Barton
mathematician and programmer; first student to win four gold medals at the International Mathematical Olympiad

Wilson A. Bentley
"The Snowflake Man"

George Washington Carver
agricultural researcher

Augustin-Louis Cauchy
French mathematician

Pafnuty Chebyshev
Russian mathematician

Pierre Curie
discovered radium

Albert Einstein
theoretical physicist

Paul Erdos
Hungarian mathematician

Michael Faraday
electrochemist

Pierre de Fermat
greatest amateur mathematician in history

Evariste Galois
French mathematical prodigy

Sophie Germain
French mathematician

Pierre-Gilles de Gennes
Nobel Prize winner in physics

William Hamilton
Irish mathematician

Oliver Heaviside
electromagnetism researcher

Fred Hoyle
British physicist

T.H. Huxley
biologist, zoologist, Darwinist

Carl Jacobi
German mathematician

Ruth Lawrence
mathematician

Gilbert Newton Lewis
physical chemist

John D. Linsley
astrophysicist

Ada Lovelace
founder of scientific computing

Benoit Mandelbrot
pioneer in fractal geometry

Isaac Newton
English physicist, astronomer, mathematician

Blaise Pascal
French mathematician and philosopher

Charles Sanders Peirce
American logician, mathematician, philosopher

Henri Poincaré
French mathematician and man of letters

Joseph Priestley
father of modern chemistry

Bernhard Riemann
German mathematician

Erwin Schrodinger
Austrian physicist

Samuel C. C. Ting
Chinese American physicist

Konstantin Tsiolkovsky
Russian rocket scientist

Inventors:
Alexander Graham Bell
invented the telephone

John Moses Browning
firearms inventor/designer

Peter Cooper
built the first modern skyscraper, the first commercial locomotive, and patented the first gelatin dessert which was later named Jell-O

Thomas Edison
invented the stock ticker, mimeograph, phonograph, and electric light bulb

Benjamin Franklin
invented the lightning rod

Elias Howe
invented sewing machine

William Lear
airplane creator

Cyrus McCormick
invented grain reaper

Guglielmo Marconi
developed radio

Eli Whitney
invented the cotton gin

Sir Frank Whittle
invented turbo jet engine

Orville and Wilbur Wright
brothers who built the first successful airplane

Medical;
Clara Barton
started the Red Cross

Elizabeth Blackwell
first woman in the U.S. to receive a medical degree

Mary Breckinridge
pioneering American midwife

John Locke
British philosopher, medical researcher and physician, taught by his father until age 14

Florence Nightingale
Nurse

Susan La Flesche Picotte
first American Indian woman physician

Albert Schweitzer
Physician

Mary Walker
Civil War physician; recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor

Educators:
Amos Bronson Alcott
innovative teacher, father of Louisa May Alcott

Susan Wise Bauer
English professor, College of William & Mary

Catharine Beecher
co-founder of the Hartford Female Seminary

George Washington Carver
African-American educator, Tuskegee Institute

Jill Ker Conway
first woman president of Smith College

Erik Demaine
associate professor of Computer Science at MIT

Timothy Dwight
President of Yale University

William Samuel Johnson
President of Columbia College

Kristin Maguire
Head of the South Carolina Board of Education

Famous Homeschoolers - Famous Homeschool Parents

But this is a very minor list, compared to the more current contributors / job creators who chose to be self inspired and pursued it (and succeeded) - no expensive resources required.

Got a point with your comparison of 18th and 19th century people? Also, am I the only one who has trouble taking a website seriously that hasn't been updated visually in nearly a quarter of a century? Whose basement was that designed in?
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Old 01-28-2024, 09:17 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,687 posts, read 57,985,728 times
Reputation: 46166
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDak15 View Post

Got a point with your comparison of 18th and 19th century people? ...
Feel free to add your meaningful content to the thread. Whether the last 5 minutes or the last 30+ yrs.

Has 2000s America done a bad job at inspiring youth to go into science and engineering?

We're all well aware of your failures.

We've chosen not to go there. (it's a choice, since opportunites to succeed are limitless. (to those willing to try)
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Old 01-28-2024, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,757 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Feel free to add your meaningful content to the thread. Whether the last 5 minutes or the last 30+ yrs.

Has 2000s America done a bad job at inspiring youth to go into science and engineering?

We're all well aware of your failures.

We've chosen not to go there. (it's a choice, since opportunites to succeed are limitless. (to those willing to try)
This thread is not about NDak. It's about America's failure. A nation's failure. The opening post talks about American society.
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Old 01-29-2024, 09:18 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,052 posts, read 18,216,027 times
Reputation: 34926
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
This thread is not about NDak. It's about America's failure. A nation's failure. The opening post talks about American society.
Well if you read enough articles the so called "experts" blame poverty and lack of food.
I haven't seen many articles blaming our academic policies. It seems it's all social issues.
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Old 01-29-2024, 09:25 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,687 posts, read 57,985,728 times
Reputation: 46166
As long as it's excuses, rather than edu failures.... You're safe here in the C-D education (?) Forum.

Solutions, responsibility?..
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Old 01-29-2024, 09:50 AM
 
12,831 posts, read 9,025,507 times
Reputation: 34873
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
This thread is not about NDak. It's about America's failure. A nation's failure. The opening post talks about American society.
And who did we, as a nation, entrust with educating our society?

Last edited by tnff; 01-29-2024 at 10:30 AM.. Reason: double word
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