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Old 02-03-2024, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,534 posts, read 2,669,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
So you don't have any evidence to actually show us.
My evidence is that I'm not a liar; my wife is not a liar; my mother was not a liar. It's recommended that you not call us liars.
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Old 02-03-2024, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,072 posts, read 7,505,741 times
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As usual, such threads get bent off topic.

JMO, spending a lot of effort to directing our youth towards STEM, is generally a waste of money. Some effort, some encouragement, some $; Yes, do help but resources are always limited.

Somehow we have large segments who don't have critical thinking skills, have low self-esteem, are caught in a social-economic bucket, ... the usual platypus platitudes.
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Old 02-03-2024, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
My evidence is that I'm not a liar; my wife is not a liar; my mother was not a liar. It's recommended that you not call us liars.
That's not the point at all. My background is in science. Scientists want to see evidence. All sorts of posters in this forum have all sorts of stories and anecdotes to tell. Few should just be accepted. Tell your anecdotes and all your beliefs as much as you wish. But until you present actual evidence, they are just that -- anecdotes and beliefs. And the same goes for me and every other poster.
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Old 02-03-2024, 01:14 PM
 
12,846 posts, read 9,045,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
As usual, such threads get bent off topic.

JMO, spending a lot of effort to directing our youth towards STEM, is generally a waste of money. Some effort, some encouragement, some $; Yes, do help but resources are always limited.

Somehow we have large segments who don't have critical thinking skills, have low self-esteem, are caught in a social-economic bucket, ... the usual platypus platitudes.
It's not about directing them toward for the most part. It's much more about not leading them away; about providing the background and knowledge to make an informed choice. It's about not making STEM seem so "ick" to kids in middle school.

We turn our kids off by middle school. We make them believe "math is too hard." "Science is too hard." "Good grades mean I'm a social outcast."
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Old 02-03-2024, 01:52 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,658,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's not about directing them toward for the most part. It's much more about not leading them away; about providing the background and knowledge to make an informed choice. It's about not making STEM seem so "ick" to kids in middle school.

We turn our kids off by middle school. We make them believe "math is too hard." "Science is too hard." "Good grades mean I'm a social outcast."
No one makes "STEM seem so "ick" to kids in middle school." I think teachers try to make students think math and science is not too hard. The fact is, many students find math and science to be too hard. I know because I was one of them.

I've never heard a student say, "Good grades mean I'm a social outcast." That applied when I was in high school in the early 1970s and applies today.
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Old 02-03-2024, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's not about directing them toward for the most part. It's much more about not leading them away; about providing the background and knowledge to make an informed choice. It's about not making STEM seem so "ick" to kids in middle school.

We turn our kids off by middle school. We make them believe "math is too hard." "Science is too hard." "Good grades mean I'm a social outcast."
I don't know who the "we" is that you're referring to, but it's generally not teachers. Way back when I was teaching earth science, every year I'd have some girl say to me something like, "I can't do science. And my mother said she never could, either". That is not what some teacher taught them.
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Old 02-03-2024, 05:35 PM
 
4,383 posts, read 4,234,636 times
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I was remarking to my colleague last week in our coding class that it's not socially acceptable to be a math nerd. Our cohort is full of nerds, many of whom are glad to have found a place where they fit in.

We try to expose them to the math and physics concepts that are the foundations of many of the applications that they hope to build. They get to appreciate the beauty of math by coding a Spirograph, the Fibonacci sequence, and an audio visualizer that lets them see their favorite tunes. By learning how to conceptualize the math that they need to code, it makes the math seem much more concrete.

I hate that math teachers do such a thorough job of hiding the beauty and intrigue of mathematics.
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Old 02-04-2024, 05:19 AM
 
18,323 posts, read 10,658,251 times
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I'm not reading 53 + pages of posters blaming this or that and different people. I realize some don't consider it science but these gamers and such and laugh if you want but shows like Big Bang have all triggered peoples interest in science. No it's no "old time" science but IMO yes there is tremendous interest in Science.
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Old 02-04-2024, 07:36 AM
 
12,846 posts, read 9,045,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
No one makes "STEM seem so "ick" to kids in middle school." I think teachers try to make students think math and science is not too hard. The fact is, many students find math and science to be too hard. I know because I was one of them.

I've never heard a student say, "Good grades mean I'm a social outcast." That applied when I was in high school in the early 1970s and applies today.
That would make you an exception, but the data differs. It's pretty well understood how peer pressure, esp in the middle school years, affects studying, grades, etc.

For example:
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern...ol-to-be-smart

For year's now the "Leaky Pipeline" has measured the fall off in STEM views among girls in each age group (elementary, middle school, high school, college, and post bachelors). There is no doubt there is a huge drop in the middle school years. And now current data (Stanford) suggests the "Leaky Pipeline" applies to boys as well as girls.

And just in general, it is also well understood there is a STEM education issue in this country. For example:
https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20211
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Old 02-04-2024, 08:23 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,080 posts, read 18,252,401 times
Reputation: 34961
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
That would make you an exception, but the data differs. It's pretty well understood how peer pressure, esp in the middle school years, affects studying, grades, etc.

For example:
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern...ol-to-be-smart

For year's now the "Leaky Pipeline" has measured the fall off in STEM views among girls in each age group (elementary, middle school, high school, college, and post bachelors). There is no doubt there is a huge drop in the middle school years. And now current data (Stanford) suggests the "Leaky Pipeline" applies to boys as well as girls.

And just in general, it is also well understood there is a STEM education issue in this country. For example:
https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20211
The biggest hurdle for kids in middle school when it comes to Math is that they do not know their multiplication tables and that causes them to struggle more than the concepts being taught.

Finding a common denominator is an example.
Almost all test papers are full of little circles all over the paper (how they were taught to do multiplication).
When I was teaching Math calculators were not used in 6/7 grades and then handed out in 8th grade.
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