Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-09-2024, 07:37 AM
 
15,796 posts, read 20,493,343 times
Reputation: 20974

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDak15 View Post
Parents need to do their jobs and parent. The argument about two working parents is bull. Two working parents has been the norm for decades. Figure it out.
Agreed. I'm not waiting for the schools to teach my kids these things. I'm teaching them myself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-09-2024, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
Reputation: 32935
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I know that my view isn't shared by most of those inside the education bureaucracy. As far moving the needle, it's moving slowly. Vo-Tech, or CTE, is increasing in popularity. When our current governor was elected that was one of his key points and the state board has changed policies to encourage rather than discourage it. Still don't have enough availability, but it is growing. Locally we've made some changes to the school board, but election cycles take time, and entrenched bureaucracies take time to change.

As said about science, change in education happens one funeral at a time. But I'm playing the infinite game here.
Change usually should happen slowly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 09:25 AM
 
4,204 posts, read 4,454,442 times
Reputation: 10154
Communities do provide some training on most of the areas you touched upon, but they have evolved over time and the level of engagement / instruction can be limited by scale and scope due to a school systems (or regions) enrollment size.

For the public school system I attended, (70s-80s) the community involvement in life "type" education started with "Safety town". IMO this needs to be repeated a few times during the elementary age range especially with so many technological distractions.

Junior High years there were Home Economics and Shop Class.

Most all the trade type skills by late 80s migrated to a few regional vocational schools serving many school systems. The current suburban school system has tech related maker space with graphic design / video production.

High School had required Health Class (CPR/ sex ed), Driver's Ed the half semester you turned 16 and then before graduation you had a required civics/ govt class (law/judicial process). Phys Ed classes of some type were only required through Sophomore year with six weeks of swimming mandatory.

Driver's Education like Vocational type instruction has been moved outside of the school system purview.
There were programs (Distributive Education / Cooperative Education) whereby students who wanted to join workforce to get experience could get jobs at various local businesses and gain credits toward graduation. I don't know what has happened to those type of programs.

When I attended I was not in either program, even though I worked during high school once I turned 16, but continued taking college prep course work. I'd say 3-7 percent of graduation class was involved in one of the two programs. Those students we didn't see much their Jr/Sr years, as they would leave early.


As to teaching students about life (in school), I think the best core would be the home economics / finance / budget type instruction and government/civics/judicial. I'd also add another P.E. half year for a basic self defense / P.E. class requirement. Many communities do safety oriented awareness weeks via their EMS/Fire/Police.

Much of life type training is required by PARENTS. The schools are meant as a supplement to life much like Social Security was never meant to be the sole source of an elderly persons retirement but as a supplement.


Whenever these educational curriculum social contract discussions come up it is difficult to delineate between what parents expectations are versus what is the education system purpose. I think there is more pressure on instructors than there need be - who get it from admin and parents. School is not "Daycare 2.0" which it seems to have become.


My parents - products of depression era public schools and children of those who fled eastern Europe before the communists took over - taught us to respect our teachers and study our coursework and do the work. If we didn't we would lose privileges (TV time/ play time with friends).


They also told us if a teacher ever asked us to do something we were not comfortable with we could leave the classroom. I never had to do so, but they imbued an inherent trust in us as children to be independent minded. We didn't need a 'safe space' we were in retrospect (maybe this was cloaked teacher student sex abuse language) empowered to create our own by being an adult and leaving a hostile environment.


Note, this is where I feel education has dropped the ball by NOT securing the environment for learning. The disruptive need to be removed to their own "special place'. So those who want to be contributing members of society can become the best they can be. Rules of discipline that parents have to sign and understand before their children are enrolled should be mandatory requirement no matter the system.


My 2cents FWIW.

Last edited by ciceropolo; 02-09-2024 at 10:12 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 10:56 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,045,370 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
It is one thing to have some understanding of financial issues. It takes some research to be able to teach all aspects of financial literacy such as IRAs, Roth IRAs, health, vehicle, and homeowners insurance, credit scores, buying a house, etc.
But most of us need to understand all of those aspects in order to stay afloat financially.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 10:59 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,045,370 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
A year of art & music? Why even require that? Seems like we're OK with mandating art & music, but not OK with mandating a year of basic shop skills or basic cooking and household skills?
Something I always wondered too. My high school heavily pushed art and music classes, saying that colleges liked to see them, even if you didn't get an A. But home ec and shop, which have practical applications, were heavily discouraged if we wanted to go to college.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 11:04 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,045,370 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Gym class...what they taught us - how to play a bunch of dodgeball/sportsball games I'd never play as an adult and didn't want to play as a kid either, as well as some tumbling and a lot of running around a track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Gym class always emphasized team sports and I imagine it does to this day in most if not all schools.

Ideally, the kids would learn more about personal fitness and nutrition. I think there is a reason though why the classes are structured the way they are. The concept is that team sports get all the kids involved. Its easier for the teacher to manage them that way. Personal fitness requires instruction that is on the level of tutoring and isn't very practical when a teacher has to manage a class of 30-40 students.

There are a number of things that would be easier if teachers didn't have to manage 25-40 students at a time, but for budget reasons it is unlikely to change. I realized parenting young kids that there was much difference between the education I wanted my children to get and the education that was practical for the schools to actually give them.

There is another point which didn't particularly apply to me and my career choice. However, team sports teach the idea of working together. This is probably a valuable skill for students who grow up and get a job in a corporate or government setting (in my case it was not helpful as a lawyer in private practice).
In my 6th grade gym class, when we played football, my team's captain told me that my position was "nothing back", where my job was to stay as far away from the ball as possible and not interfere with any plays. So I did not get any of the so called benefits of gym class, since it did not help me get into better shape, it did nothing to improve my football abilities, and it did nothing to teach teamwork. There needs to be some way to incorporate less athletic kids into gym class.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 11:06 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,045,370 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
How to dance the Electric Slide for some freaking reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymind View Post
For us we once spent a month or so practicing 1920s flapper/jitterbug dance moves. I think they let you opt out if you hated it, which I did, but then you had to go run in circles around the school yard instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
As a note, "Dance" has been infused in PE since at least the 1960s and the standalone Dance class counts as a PE in some states.
In elementary school, we did square dancing in class. One day, my assigned partner was a popular girl who hated me. She spent the hole class complaining about how much she hated me and didn't want to dance with me. One of the songs referred to your partner as your "Red River pal". I then told her "I guess you are my Red River pal", and she started cursing at me. I wonder if nowadays I'd be in trouble for sexual harassment for calling her my "Red River pal".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 11:11 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,045,370 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I don't think Home Ec or Shop was ever required in high school, although most Junior High kids took them
Yes, and the point I keep making is that middle school is a long ways away from where you will be using those skills. They would be more appropriate in high school, not middle school.

Quote:
(when I was in school girls took Home Ec and boys took Shop). I don't remember anything in Shop dealing with "repairs". A bird house, a pencil holder and a three gun hanging gun rack is what I remember. for Wood The next year was a plastic letter opener and a **** ton of vinyl change purses.
And that's the problem. When we are required to take home ec and shop, in middle school, they focus on the wrong things.

Quote:
I don't have a clue what we did the 2nd Semester in Electrical, the teacher just sat there and burped a lot. He drank.
And that is why tenure needs to be eliminated. I know you will say that even with tenure, teachers who don't do their job can be fired. But, if that was the case, when why wasn't this teacher fired for drinking and not doing his job?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 11:14 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,045,370 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
Maybe we can address the fact that some are still referring to it as “gym class”.
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
Yes, even all the students and teachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
Really? I haven’t heard either refer to “gym class” in a long time (decades) at the ES level.
Officially, it may be called physical education or phys ed, but, in practice, most people still call it gym. I don't think there is any real point in arguing semantics. Home ec and shop tend to go by various other politically correct names that change every few years, but it doesn't really change anything, and everybody uses the old names anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2024, 01:01 PM
 
12,846 posts, read 9,045,657 times
Reputation: 34914
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Something I always wondered too. My high school heavily pushed art and music classes, saying that colleges liked to see them, even if you didn't get an A. But home ec and shop, which have practical applications, were heavily discouraged if we wanted to go to college.
We discovered it worse than that when our oldest hit that age. We asked about signing her up for shop and Home Ec and were told it was a permanent decision -- if she took a single shop or home ec class, then she would not be permitted to take any AP or college prep courses. And if she took any college prep courses, then could not take shop or home ec. Then they closed those departments for lack of participation. Things that make you go HMMM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
In my 6th grade gym class, when we played football, my team's captain told me that my position was "nothing back", where my job was to stay as far away from the ball as possible and not interfere with any plays. So I did not get any of the so called benefits of gym class, since it did not help me get into better shape, it did nothing to improve my football abilities, and it did nothing to teach teamwork. There needs to be some way to incorporate less athletic kids into gym class.
Agree. When I went through gym/PE/whatever-they-call-it-now was just so the football coach could sneak in some extra practice sessions for the team with the rest of us as "tackling dummies."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Yes, and the point I keep making is that middle school is a long ways away from where you will be using those skills. They would be more appropriate in high school, not middle school.

And that's the problem. When we are required to take home ec and shop, in middle school, they focus on the wrong things.
At least when I went, shop and home ec were high school courses. I think our shop focused on pretty good things. Besides the basic projects, I built several pieces of furniture including a lamp, a nightstand, and an upholstered ottoman in wood class. Also learned basic car repair (of course back then you could do basic repairs with a screwdriver and an SAE socket set, unlike today that's a mix of metric, SAE, and half a dozen types of screws and clips that all need special tools); basic electrical repairs; simple welding/metal work. Used every one of those skills sometime in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Officially, it may be called physical education or phys ed, but, in practice, most people still call it gym. I don't think there is any real point in arguing semantics. Home ec and shop tend to go by various other politically correct names that change every few years, but it doesn't really change anything, and everybody uses the old names anyway.
So true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top