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Old 02-10-2024, 08:37 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Maybe not the average kid. But athletes? HS athletes perform at a far higher level than their counterparts in the 60s. You can see this by things like school records in running, swimming, etc. And the top HS football and basketball teams from today would absolutely CRUSH their 1960s counterparts. They would make them look silly.

Student athletes today are on a whole different level. When I taught in Texas, football was a year-round sport. Athletes would be enrolled in football as their 7th period PE class and so would get coaching and weight training year-round in a manner that neatly steps around the prohibition on after school practice before August 10 or whatever the regulations say. And it was always 7th period so that they would stay after school and keep working out. Year-round. Then they would join 7 on 7 leagues and play all summer and go to special position camps in the summer hosted by all the top NCAA D1 programs.

Soccer and baseball is equally crazy with all the elite travel teams that play year-round.

There was none of that when I played HS football back in the late 70s and early 80.
No question that HS athletes today are on a whole different level. I graduated from HS in 1973. There were three separate seasons with little overlap. Football players went from football season to basketball or wrestling. When winter sports were over, you went to track or baseball. There weren't open gyms for basketball. There was an official first day of practice and nothing happened before that day.

In the summer, the only organized options were American Legion baseball and a basketball league that played on an outdoor court. There was little emphasis on weightlifting and the only place to lift weights was if you had weights in your basement. We spent a lot of time on pickup basketball and football games, and even Wiffle ball. Soccer, ice hockey, volleyball, and lacrosse and any type of travel sports didn't exist in my town.

The world is different today. Almost every athlete is competing on an AAU/travel team in addition to their high school team. Almost every school has a weight room/fitness center that is used year round. My local HS swim team swims for the YMCA swim team before and after the HS season starting when they are 5 years old.

One of the consequences of this increased emphasis on sports training year round is the non-athletes are left out. They don't play pick-up games in the neighborhood since there are no pick-up games in the neighborhood. The result is a large number of boys who have never played sports and are very unathletic. I've noticed there are many boys who can't compete in PR class with the girls who are athletes. There may be additional reasons for this and that is the fact that many boys are growing up today without a father in the home and the fact that video games are so pervasive.
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Old 02-10-2024, 08:58 AM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,029,433 times
Reputation: 34883
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
No question that HS athletes today are on a whole different level. I graduated from HS in 1973. There were three separate seasons with little overlap. Football players went from football season to basketball or wrestling. When winter sports were over, you went to track or baseball. There weren't open gyms for basketball. There was an official first day of practice and nothing happened before that day.

In the summer, the only organized options were American Legion baseball and a basketball league that played on an outdoor court. There was little emphasis on weightlifting and the only place to lift weights was if you had weights in your basement. We spent a lot of time on pickup basketball and football games, and even Wiffle ball. Soccer, ice hockey, volleyball, and lacrosse and any type of travel sports didn't exist in my town.

The world is different today. Almost every athlete is competing on an AAU/travel team in addition to their high school team. Almost every school has a weight room/fitness center that is used year round. My local HS swim team swims for the YMCA swim team before and after the HS season starting when they are 5 years old.

One of the consequences of this increased emphasis on sports training year round is the non-athletes are left out. They don't play pick-up games in the neighborhood since there are no pick-up games in the neighborhood. The result is a large number of boys who have never played sports and are very unathletic. I've noticed there are many boys who can't compete in PR class with the girls who are athletes. There may be additional reasons for this and that is the fact that many boys are growing up today without a father in the home and the fact that video games are so pervasive.
We could do a whole thread on this topic. We ensured both our kids were in sports because if they weren't, then there was nothing. We actually tried for one season to just let them wander and have "free play" like we did as kids, but .... there was none. All the other kids in the neighborhood were in organized sports so there were no pick-up games or any of the things we did as kids. It was a choice of either be in some organized sport or sit at home doing nothing. There was no in between.
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Old 02-10-2024, 10:48 AM
 
Location: USA
3,071 posts, read 8,018,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
We could do a whole thread on this topic. We ensured both our kids were in sports because if they weren't, then there was nothing. We actually tried for one season to just let them wander and have "free play" like we did as kids, but .... there was none. All the other kids in the neighborhood were in organized sports so there were no pick-up games or any of the things we did as kids. It was a choice of either be in some organized sport or sit at home doing nothing. There was no in between.
Sports teaches a lot about life. My wife and I encouraged our daughter to participate. She played T-ball, soccer, then went on into gymnastics. We never insisted but rather told her what the benefits would be. I didn't get to play sports much. Pick-up basketball, football was all I did. I enjoyed it but had I had some encouragement , it would have made a big difference I believe . Instead, I was told how stupid an unathletic I was, which has stayed with me for life. Parents can make a big difference if they will just sit down with their kids and talk to them.

I have cited sports, but all things that need to be taught outside the classroom should start with the parents. Balancing a checkbook, understanding things that make a home run, these sort of things should be taught by the parents or someone who the parents know and trust. I know for a fact that not all parents are able to teach these things, but it would be a start.
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Old 02-10-2024, 06:58 PM
 
1,225 posts, read 1,230,252 times
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Quote:
-High schools not offering many classes on the trades, driver's ed, or ANY skills on money management
-No classes on impulse control, self-discipline, conflict resolution, etc.
-University not offering job training or white-collar apprenticeships, forcing graduates into the catch-22 involving jobs and job experience (I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about).

Why?

Serious question.
Chicago Public Schools requires a semester of Driver's Ed and Financial Literacy in high school.

I'm not sure what a class on 'impulse control, self-discipline, or conflict resolution' would be like, but even in the 80s, conflict resolution was covered in health class. But mostly these are issues of executive functioning, which is something students develop gradually from the moment they enter grade school. Waiting until high school for a specific class to teach these things would ensure spectacular failure.

BTW CPS also requires that all students submit a Post-Secondary Plan, which must include an acceptance letter to a college, trade school, military branch, or gap year/deferred acceptance program. I think more school districts should require this.

The issue of universities requiring internships or apprenticeships is tricky, and many programs have dropped them in an effort to address social justice issues. Because if an internship is required, the student has to receive credit for it. Receiving credit means the student has to pay tuition. At the same time, if the internship is primarily of educational benefit and the intern is receiving an academic benefit (i.e., credit and grades), the employer is not required to pay the intern at all. Unpaid internships are a severe hardship for poorer students who cannot afford to work for free. Schools that are serious about equity don't limit their programs to only wealthy students, and schools that offer rigorous academic value don't need to pimp out their students as free labor.

And internships are of dubious value anyway. Three to six months out of school, you usually can't tell which new hires had internships and which didn't. They might get a bit more pay to start with, but that's short-lived.
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Old 02-10-2024, 08:37 PM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,029,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarianRavenwood View Post
BTW CPS also requires that all students submit a Post-Secondary Plan, which must include an acceptance letter to a college, trade school, military branch, or gap year/deferred acceptance program. I think more school districts should require this.
.
Not sure how that accomplishes anything other than an administrative burden on both the student and the school as well as programs they apply to. What says the student has to actually attend the program after they graduate high school?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarianRavenwood View Post
The issue of universities requiring internships or apprenticeships is tricky, and many programs have dropped them in an effort to address social justice issues. Because if an internship is required, the student has to receive credit for it. Receiving credit means the student has to pay tuition. At the same time, if the internship is primarily of educational benefit and the intern is receiving an academic benefit (i.e., credit and grades), the employer is not required to pay the intern at all. Unpaid internships are a severe hardship for poorer students who cannot afford to work for free. Schools that are serious about equity don't limit their programs to only wealthy students, and schools that offer rigorous academic value don't need to pimp out their students as free labor.

And internships are of dubious value anyway. Three to six months out of school, you usually can't tell which new hires had internships and which didn't. They might get a bit more pay to start with, but that's short-lived.
I hear about unpaid internships but have never seen one. Every intern we've had in the professional environment has been paid. Everyone I've known who had one while I was in college got paid as well.
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Old 02-11-2024, 08:13 AM
 
862 posts, read 865,230 times
Reputation: 2189
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarianRavenwood View Post
And internships are of dubious value anyway. Three to six months out of school, you usually can't tell which new hires had internships and which didn't. They might get a bit more pay to start with, but that's short-lived.
Depends but employers often use internships as part of the hiring process to screen who they will offer full time jobs to after graduation. For students, it a chance to experience an actual work environment in their field and to refine their career plans.
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Old 02-11-2024, 08:27 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,335 posts, read 60,500,026 times
Reputation: 60918
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Not sure how that accomplishes anything other than an administrative burden on both the student and the school as well as programs they apply to. What says the student has to actually attend the program after they graduate high school?


I hear about unpaid internships but have never seen one. Every intern we've had in the professional environment has been paid. Everyone I've known who had one while I was in college got paid as well.
Student Teaching. One semester part-time followed by one semester full-time.
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Old 02-11-2024, 11:13 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,059 posts, read 18,223,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Student Teaching. One semester part-time followed by one semester full-time.
My student teaching was unpaid and for the full school year.
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Old 02-11-2024, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,766 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
My student teaching was unpaid and for the full school year.
Mine, one semester and yes, totally unpaid. In fact, you had to pay tuition to student teach.
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Old 02-11-2024, 11:47 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,335 posts, read 60,500,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Mine, one semester and yes, totally unpaid. In fact, you had to pay tuition to student teach.
There's legislation this year in Maryland to make Student Teaching paid. No mention on who would pay or how to fund it. Youngest daughter starts to splutter when she talks about it.
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