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Old 02-14-2024, 10:35 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,048,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
In my junior high, swimsuits were optional. Your forgot your swimsuit, you swam naked. I never swam with a t-shirt on and would not want to swim with one on.
If you don't mind me asking, how long ago was this? This sounds like something from a very long time ago.

When I was in junior high / middle school, if you didn't have proper gym clothes, you'd have to sit out and get a 0 for the day. When we would do the mile run, students who didn't care about grades and didn't want to do the mile run would intentionally not wear gym clothes and just take a 0 for the day. So one time, the teacher said everybody is running today, even if you are unprepared in a tuxedo.

My school didn't have a pool, so not having a swimsuit was not an issue.

As an aside, in 8th grade, when we did the mile run, the best track runner in the school was in my class, but he got an F for the day that we did the mile run due to poor behavior. I remember he was crying. I laughed at him and he started cursing at me. I can honestly say I got a better grade on mile run day than the best track runner in the school!
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Old 02-14-2024, 11:08 AM
 
12,847 posts, read 9,055,079 times
Reputation: 34930
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Some of the above is done already, I did it in the consumer units of Econ for God's sake. What the issue is that people proclaim that "XXXX isn't being done" because there's no class with that title and no matter what those of us tell them they don't move off that rock. Look how many people claim that Civics isn't taught when all it is is the class name has changed.
Disagree. People are concerned about content; not what name is on the class. And it's not even about the so called "standards" but about what is actually being taught in the classroom. Parents see the textbooks; they see the homework; and they see the tests. That's content, not course title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Then there's also the thought that if a kid is smart enough to do Trig or Calculus (or Chem and Physics) he's smart enough to figure out interest rates.
.
Being smart enough to understand it doesn't mean they know about it. It has to be actively sought out and studied just like anything else. It's not a simple thing to figure out unless you spend time on it. Finance companies make billions on the very fact that most people DON'T understand it. And all those folks wanting student load forgiveness should have been able to figure it out. But I honestly believe that most of them didn't have a clue what they were signing up for but just trusted what they were told.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Typically Band/Choir are free electives. Kids who are in those, especially Band, already have an interest in it, so the first year may fulfill a hard Fine Art requirement (although for most kids that's just a General Music class) the rest of the years are for kids who are interested. The same would be true for Art (which Band or Choir fills for a Fine Art), most kids will take a General Art class. That second or third year is for kids with an interest. Throw an AP Art into that (or AP Music Theory for music).
.
Yes the high school requirement is 1 year. But I believe I said middle school. So that's three years in middle school just to get into high school plus a year in high school. That's a lot of art and music. We have to ask whether, given our results vs the developed world, if some of those years could be better used differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
JROTC, unless at a designated all JROTC school, is an elective most places and often counts as a Practical Art (along with Family and Consumer Science, Computer Graphics (which can also count as a Fine Art), various Computer Applications courses and, yes, a Shop class if the school has those).
.
Didn't say it wasn't an elective. But it's an example of how one course can teach its content as well as many of the very life skills we are talking about in this thread. Including organizing a formal banquet with guest speaker and formal dance each year. Which meant planning, budgeting, preparing, guest speaker, and proper etiquette and manners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
When I was in junior high / middle school, if you didn't have proper gym clothes, you'd have to sit out and get a 0 for the day. When we would do the mile run, students who didn't care about grades and didn't want to do the mile run would intentionally not wear gym clothes and just take a 0 for the day. So one time, the teacher said everybody is running today, even if you are unprepared in a tuxedo.
!
Pretty much the same thing at my school. Kids were required to bring a gym bag and dress out for gym class, then shower afterward. Getting snapped with a wet towel on a bare butt was a rite of passage.
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Old 02-14-2024, 11:21 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,390 posts, read 60,575,206 times
Reputation: 60996
TNFF, I don't like quoting your whole post because I'd need to go back and edit so much of it.

Most parents don't even know what classes their kid is taking, that's for the good kids. The poorer students the parents don't even know their kids are supposed to be in school.

A recent vignette from where I grew up in Pennsylvania:
A delegation of parents and residents recently went to a School Board meeting to protest a course. A couple hours of testimony ensued. Of course the School Board was clue less so the Superintendent had to handle the protest. Turned out the class they were complaining about wasn't even taught or being considered. They'd read a story about some school
system in California.

Your school system seems to do things ass backwards. Most Middle Schools will have one year of Music, one year of a Practical Art (that could be Home Ec or Shop or a couple others. My system cycled kids through those quarterly so everyone got each of the four) with that third year as student choice (although often that was the first year for a foreign language for many of the kids).

JROTC, unless it's changed, is a high school program.
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Old 02-14-2024, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,817 posts, read 24,321,239 times
Reputation: 32952
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
TNFF, I don't like quoting your whole post because I'd need to go back and edit so much of it.

Most parents don't even know what classes their kid is taking, that's for the good kids. The poorer students the parents don't even know their kids are supposed to be in school.

A recent vignette from where I grew up in Pennsylvania:
A delegation of parents and residents recently went to a School Board meeting to protest a course. A couple hours of testimony ensued. Of course the School Board was clue less so the Superintendent had to handle the protest. Turned out the class they were complaining about wasn't even taught or being considered. They'd read a story about some school
system in California.

Your school system seems to do things ass backwards. Most Middle Schools will have one year of Music, one year of a Practical Art (that could be Home Ec or Shop or a couple others. My system cycled kids through those quarterly so everyone got each of the four) with that third year as student choice (although often that was the first year for a foreign language for many of the kids).

JROTC, unless it's changed, is a high school program.
You're correct. The other poster is naive about what 'most' parents want to know about their child's education.
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Old 02-14-2024, 12:24 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,664,471 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
If you don't mind me asking, how long ago was this? This sounds like something from a very long time ago.

When I was in junior high / middle school, if you didn't have proper gym clothes, you'd have to sit out and get a 0 for the day. When we would do the mile run, students who didn't care about grades and didn't want to do the mile run would intentionally not wear gym clothes and just take a 0 for the day. So one time, the teacher said everybody is running today, even if you are unprepared in a tuxedo.

My school didn't have a pool, so not having a swimsuit was not an issue.

As an aside, in 8th grade, when we did the mile run, the best track runner in the school was in my class, but he got an F for the day that we did the mile run due to poor behavior. I remember he was crying. I laughed at him and he started cursing at me. I can honestly say I got a better grade on mile run day than the best track runner in the school!
Swimming nude ended in 1970 when a new HS was built and the junior high moved into the old high school that didn't have a pool. The new HS was a much nicer pool with bleachers and multiple entrances so there wasn't nude swimming in the new HS.

Some schools are still doing a mile run, but my local HS stopped it when the PE teachers refused to do it anymore because parents would call the principal and request their child be excused. They said what was the point if a third of the class would be excused from the run.
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Old 02-14-2024, 01:21 PM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,048,359 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Being smart enough to understand it doesn't mean they know about it. It has to be actively sought out and studied just like anything else. It's not a simple thing to figure out unless you spend time on it. Finance companies make billions on the very fact that most people DON'T understand it. And all those folks wanting student load forgiveness should have been able to figure it out. But I honestly believe that most of them didn't have a clue what they were signing up for but just trusted what they were told.
Some of the smartest students from my high school were the ones who were naive enough to believe that loans were free money and that loans are somehow better than grants or scholarship. Or that "placement" for AP classes was somehow better than credit.

Quote:
Pretty much the same thing at my school. Kids were required to bring a gym bag and dress out for gym class, then shower afterward. Getting snapped with a wet towel on a bare butt was a rite of passage.
We had gym lockers, so we didn't need to bring a gym bag every day. We didn't shower, so that was not an issue. The locker room did have showers, but they were never used, so, at one time, students showered after gym class, but that ended before I was in school. Also, as I said, my school didn't have a pool.
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Old 02-14-2024, 01:24 PM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,048,359 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
Swimming nude ended in 1970 when a new HS was built and the junior high moved into the old high school that didn't have a pool. The new HS was a much nicer pool with bleachers and multiple entrances so there wasn't nude swimming in the new HS.
So it was during the Vietnam War era. I've been told that expecting boys to do things nude in that era was to prepare them for the military. In your case, it sounds like more of a punishment for not having a proper swimsuit for gym class. I guess for students who don't care about grades, a 0 for the day won't be an incentive, but having to swim nude may have been a stronger incentive to bring a swimsuit.

Quote:
Some schools are still doing a mile run, but my local HS stopped it when the PE teachers refused to do it anymore because parents would call the principal and request their child be excused. They said what was the point if a third of the class would be excused from the run.
Why were so many students excused from the mile run?
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Old 02-14-2024, 01:31 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,390 posts, read 60,575,206 times
Reputation: 60996
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
So it was during the Vietnam War era. I've been told that expecting boys to do things nude in that era was to prepare them for the military. In your case, it sounds like more of a punishment for not having a proper swimsuit for gym class. I guess for students who don't care about grades, a 0 for the day won't be an incentive, but having to swim nude may have been a stronger incentive to bring a swimsuit.



Why were so many students excused from the mile run?
Asthma, social anxiety, poor body image plus probably a few others.
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Old 02-14-2024, 02:46 PM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,048,359 times
Reputation: 4357
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Asthma, social anxiety, poor body image plus probably a few others.
What does social anxiety have to do with the mile run? It's not a team activity. And, poor body image? Wouldn't running get them in better shape and improve their body image? None of those would have been excuses when I was in school.
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Old 02-14-2024, 03:08 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,390 posts, read 60,575,206 times
Reputation: 60996
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
What does social anxiety have to do with the mile run? It's not a team activity. And, poor body image? Wouldn't running get them in better shape and improve their body image? None of those would have been excuses when I was in school.
You're not around today's youth or their parents. You're right, they wouldn't have been excuses when you were in school but are now.

I had stitches in my leg one time, with a doctor's note to excuse me for a couple or three classes until they came out. Didn't matter, still had to do class. Broke those stitches wide open and had to be re-done.
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