Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-15-2024, 10:54 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,657 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34154

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Well, other than telling the parents of those kids to "do a better job" what is your solution? Or, are you saying there isn't one?
What happens in the home .....how does education get involved with that ?

I had to adapt to their living enviroment.

I let kids go to the cafeteria to get a late breakfast when they came to school hungry and had been crying
I let one kid sleep in class because his parents had a huge fight (cops called) and he slept in the car in the garage.
I let one girl off the hook for any work because her mom got arrested (again) and she was put with Grandma overnight without any of her stuff.

How do you fix that ?

What happened outside of school has a huge effect on them while they are IN school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-15-2024, 11:29 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,878 posts, read 59,846,876 times
Reputation: 60419
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
What happens in the home .....how does education get involved with that ?

I had to adapt to their living enviroment.

I let kids go to the cafeteria to get a late breakfast when they came to school hungry and had been crying
I let one kid sleep in class because his parents had a huge fight (cops called) and he slept in the car in the garage.
I let one girl off the hook for any work because her mom got arrested (again) and she was put with Grandma overnight without any of her stuff.

How do you fix that ?

What happened outside of school has a huge effect on them while they are IN school.
I worked a couple summers at a placement facility for kids involved with the justice system (Mrs. NBP was a full-time educational staff member there). Most of the kids had some sort of "disability", whether cognitive or behavioral, or a combination, with many leavened with a touch of mental illness.

It was a combination boarding school with a day school component. Guess which kids had better overall outcomes: the ones who were boarders with nearly constant supervision and behavioral expectations or the ones who were there seven or eight hours a day Monday through Friday and lived with their parent(s) back in the neighborhood with all the situations that got them in the school in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2024, 11:35 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,657 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34154
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I worked a couple summers at a placement facility for kids involved with the justice system (Mrs. NBP was a full-time educational staff member there). Most of the kids had some sort of "disability", whether cognitive or behavioral, or a combination, with many leavened with a touch of mental illness.

It was a combination boarding school with a day school component. Guess which kids had better overall outcomes: the ones who were boarders with nearly constant supervision and behavioral expectations or the ones who were there seven or eight hours a day Monday through Friday and lived with their parent(s) back in the neighborhood with all the situations that got them in the school in the first place.
When you have first hand experience ...you realize the schools cannot fix it in the 8-3 M-F timeframe.
You have to adapt and teach the best you can so they can have some semblance of a life when they drop out/graduate.

Telling them to remove gang colors during school ....what does that really accomplish ? Nothing in my book.
they put them back on outside of school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2024, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,125 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32526
I've always thought there was a difference between and instructor and a teacher.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2024, 11:58 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,657 posts, read 17,252,808 times
Reputation: 34154
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I've always thought there was a difference between and instructor and a teacher.
Oh yes there is.

I adapted to my environment.

I told the kids they need to learn math so they won't get ripped off.
They understood that.

I told kids they already knew the metric system....gram, kilo
They understood that too.

You don't teach like that in middle class/upper middle class schools.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2024, 12:25 PM
 
6,922 posts, read 6,979,930 times
Reputation: 4335
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
As the PE teacher, who also couldn't do it, would tell us, "It's a run, not a walk". A lot of us would walk eight or ten miles rabbit hunting.
I guess if walking wasn't allowed, it would be a lot harder. I seem to remember it was officially called the mile run / walk, so walking was clearly allowed.

A funny story: in 12th grade, one time, when we did the mile run (4 laps around the track), I was so slow that after 3 laps, my teacher thought I was finished. But that also meant that all of my future times were much slower, since they were the full 4 laps. Even if I improved, I would never improve to the point where I could do 4 laps in less time than I could do 3 laps a few months earlier. Since it looked like my time got worse, near the end of the year, in order to graduate, I had to do one last mile run while others in the class were allowed to do something fun.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2024, 08:43 PM
 
1,086 posts, read 873,297 times
Reputation: 782
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
-High schools not offering many classes on the trades, driver's ed, or ANY skills on money management
-No classes on impulse control, self-discipline, conflict resolution, etc.
-University not offering job training or white-collar apprenticeships, forcing graduates into the catch-22 involving jobs and job experience (I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about).

Why?

Serious question.

Blame teacher unions.


In the name of "equality", teacher unions want all teachers to get the same pay for the same hours worked.


So the schools can get plenty of teachers in the arts and humanities, but almost none in STEM and other highly skilled subjects when paying union scale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2024, 08:54 PM
 
278 posts, read 73,137 times
Reputation: 131
I think it's because most want to go to college.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2024, 10:10 PM
 
Location: WA
5,288 posts, read 7,579,799 times
Reputation: 8225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter View Post
Blame teacher unions.

In the name of "equality", teacher unions want all teachers to get the same pay for the same hours worked.

So the schools can get plenty of teachers in the arts and humanities, but almost none in STEM and other highly skilled subjects when paying union scale.
We have a ready-made experiment to test your hypothesis. Some states have collective bargaining in public education and some prohibit it.

So do states with collective bargaining like Minnesota have less STEM and CTE classes than states like Alabama which prohibit it? Run the numbers and let us know.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2024, 08:17 AM
 
12,579 posts, read 8,809,297 times
Reputation: 34395
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
We have a ready-made experiment to test your hypothesis. Some states have collective bargaining in public education and some prohibit it.

So do states with collective bargaining like Minnesota have less STEM and CTE classes than states like Alabama which prohibit it? Run the numbers and let us know.
The study has already been done.

In science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) fields more broadly, the shortages in teachers in 2017–18 were about 100 000 in high schools and 150 000 in middle schools.
https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/ar...eachersFaculty

Previous work had already found that only about one third of physics teachers had a degree in-field, from a university accredited to award physics degrees.

If you'd like anecdotes, here are three.

a. For several years I conducted summer continuous learning sessions at a local university. Each year we asked the teachers about their background so we could scale the presentations accordingly. We found:
1) None of the teachers had a STEM degree in any field.
2) Roughly a third had no science courses beyond the standard year of intro science that most colleges have as part of their gen eds.
3) Of those who did have anything beyond an intro course, all of them were in a biology teaching concentration. No chemistry or physics or other science beyond the freshman gen ed.

b. Our local school system has no trouble getting teachers for the various typical subjects. But cannot fill the science teaching positions with professionals. Instead, it becomes an additional area for someone.

c. In connection with b, our oldest was offered a physics teaching position at the high school before she finished college but immediately turned it down because the pay was not competitive.

All of this supports the original concept that the "everyone gets paid the same, collegiality based pay scale" is not competitive for quality STEM professionals.

Last edited by tnff; 02-16-2024 at 08:29 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top