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Old 02-17-2024, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
You asked if there were more classes, not better STEM/CTE programs. Two very different questions. But also irrelevant to the fundamental problem of not being competitive for STEM graduates.

I've proposed on this forum before, "what if we paid teachers comparable to what those degrees would make in the market?" And the answer from teachers has always been a resounding "no." Why? Because collegiality.

Would you be willing to pay someone with, for example, a Chemical Engineering degree what that degree brings on the market to teach chemistry? Pay them more than an art teacher for example?
collegiality???????
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Old 02-17-2024, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Same question to you: Are you willing to pay more for someone with a STEM degree? Would you be willing to pay someone with a Chem Engineering degree more than someone with an art degree?
Yes, just as I support merit pay.
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Old 02-17-2024, 10:49 AM
 
23,875 posts, read 10,251,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Two points:

1. I'm not even sure what teaching kids about "life" means. And, in fact, if we spent the rest of the thread discussing what that meant, we'd probably sees a wide variance of opinions.

2. Just as with sex ed, if the parents don't do it? Who does it get left to? The schools. I never knew a teacher, or school-based administrator, or central office administrator who wanted to tackle sex ed in schools.
When were you actively involved in education? Sex Ed was mandatory and required a passing grade in 7th for me.
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Old 02-17-2024, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,729 posts, read 40,764,681 times
Reputation: 61913
Too many college students have to take basic remedial classes as incoming freshmen so K - 12 is falling down on the job, somewhere. My guess would be grade inflation to get the graduation stats the schools need. My suggestion would be not to accept them in college and send them back to high school to take those classes. Their parents already paid their taxes (and tuition if they are coming from private schools). They shouldn't have to pay tuition for remedial classes in college, too. The Department of Education should monitor the number of send backs.
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Old 02-17-2024, 11:15 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,871 posts, read 59,846,876 times
Reputation: 60409
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC;66435395[B
]Too many college students have to take basic remedial classes as incoming freshmen so K - 12 is falling down on the job, somewhere.[/b] My guess would be grade inflation to get the graduation stats the schools need. My suggestion would be not to accept them in college and send them back to high school to take those classes. Their parents already paid their taxes (and tuition if they are coming from private schools). They shouldn't have to pay tuition for remedial classes in college, too. The Department of Education should monitor the number of send backs.
Yeah, it couldn't be that colleges are now, and have been for a couple decades, admitting more students who aren't really qualified and wouldn't have been admitted prior to, oh, around 1990.

I started college in 1973 and there were remedial classes even then at the Pennsylvania state college I attended. They were called Student Development if I recall correctly.
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Old 02-17-2024, 11:25 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,433 posts, read 3,695,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Too many college students have to take basic remedial classes as incoming freshmen so K - 12 is falling down on the job, somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
My suggestion would be not to accept them in college and send them back to high school to take those classes.
They aren’t accepted into top-tiered schools; community colleges offer basic remedial classes, often in an attempt to prepare one with basic job or trade skills. That said, it’s not always on the high-school as to why remedial classes are necessary for some; it isn’t a one-dimensional problem, and it can’t be solved as though it is.
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Old 02-17-2024, 12:01 PM
 
16,880 posts, read 16,145,167 times
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4 year universities will offer acceptance to a student under the condition that the first semester or so be taken at a community college to complete any remedial/prerequisite courses necessary for their major. They'll have access to the 4 year university's amenities, like the gym, student center, library, etc, but they will be attending their classes on the community college campus.

I don't know of any 4 year universities that offer remedial courses on their own campuses unless you consider College Precalc or College Math to be a "remedial" course. The true remedial courses are offered at the community colleges - students take those so that they can place into a course like College Math or College Comp 1 at the 4 year university.
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Old 02-17-2024, 12:07 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,871 posts, read 59,846,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
4 year universities will offer acceptance to a student under the condition that the first semester or so be taken at a community college to complete any remedial/prerequisite courses necessary for their major. They'll have access to the 4 year university's amenities, like the gym, student center, library, etc, but they will be attending their classes on the community college campus.

I don't know of any 4 year universities that offer remedial courses on their own campuses unless you consider College Precalc or College Math to be a "remedial" course. The true remedial courses are offered at the community colleges - students take those so that they can place into a course like College Math or College Comp 1 at the 4 year university.
That's presupposing a state has a strong community college system, some don't.
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Old 02-17-2024, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threestep2 View Post
When were you actively involved in education? Sex Ed was mandatory and required a passing grade in 7th for me.
Sex ed in the school where I was an administrator was, at various times, either an opt-in program or an opt-out program.

I'm not sure what that has to do, however, with my previous post.
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Old 02-17-2024, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32519
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Too many college students have to take basic remedial classes as incoming freshmen so K - 12 is falling down on the job, somewhere. My guess would be grade inflation to get the graduation stats the schools need. My suggestion would be not to accept them in college and send them back to high school to take those classes. Their parents already paid their taxes (and tuition if they are coming from private schools). They shouldn't have to pay tuition for remedial classes in college, too. The Department of Education should monitor the number of send backs.
Not sure it would be an at all good idea to send 18 year old adults back to a school with 14 year olds.
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