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Old 02-18-2024, 08:24 AM
 
12,837 posts, read 9,041,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, if you and I are in agreement, then I must be wrong.
That makes three things we agree on.

Where do you stand on maintaining classroom discipline, and holding students accountable for both their behavior and performance? High expectations for the students?
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Old 02-18-2024, 08:50 AM
 
8,016 posts, read 5,856,161 times
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Believe me, with all of the nonsense that goes on in public schools, you are better off teaching your own kids "life" skills.

My wife and I taught all of our kids most of those skills when we sat down for dinner. They learned early on about bank accounts, car loans, financial matters, car maintenance, etc.
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Old 02-18-2024, 08:52 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,700 posts, read 58,022,681 times
Reputation: 46172
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
HS teacher here.

Yeah, that's not going to generally work. HS doesn't lend itself to adults dropping in to recover a few credits that they missed because they were goofing off too much the first time around. .....
Most schools in the USA have lights and heat available during the 130-150 hrs / week STEM classrooms sit empty.
Consider the potential revenue stream to our cash strapped public schools

Find some sympathetic politicians to fund the 'catch-up gravy train'.

"We couldn't accomplish the mission on the initial $16,000-$18,000 per / yr /
student spent, so we'll bring the incompetent adults(?) Back and run-them-through-again!, off cycle, (Just like we have to do with other livestock).

That way you won't burden a higher academic deliverable with the 'by choice', or incapable learners. No sense in further eroding the success of those paying and sacrificing family and personal time to better themselves. The effectiveness of CC need not be jeopardized due to the failure of PS deliverables. Turn it into another cash cow. Teacher incentives could be great, to perpetuate the failures!!!. And viable, purposed, effective education need not suffer.

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 02-18-2024 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 02-18-2024, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,777 posts, read 24,289,888 times
Reputation: 32918
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
That makes three things we agree on.

Where do you stand on maintaining classroom discipline, and holding students accountable for both their behavior and performance? High expectations for the students?
I was considered to be a relatively strict principal, but at the same time believing in LDA -- least drastic action needed TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. The more a particular student acted out, the more drastic the consequence had to be. We did have a somewhat reactionary group of teachers on our faculty...is chewing gum really a reason for permanent expulsion...especially when a third of the faculty admitted they chewed gum in school???

But, it's very important for the teacher to be the main person maintaining discipline in the classroom, and to send students to the office only when it's something they can't handle. Every time a teacher sends a kid to the office, there's a kid or several who think, "see, he (or she) can't handle us". Teachers need to be strong.

Academic standards? What can I say. We were considered to be one of the 5 best middle schools out of over 500 in the state...and one of the best, if not the best, gifted programs.
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Old 02-18-2024, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,777 posts, read 24,289,888 times
Reputation: 32918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
Believe me, with all of the nonsense that goes on in public schools, you are better off teaching your own kids "life" skills.

My wife and I taught all of our kids most of those skills when we sat down for dinner. They learned early on about bank accounts, car loans, financial matters, car maintenance, etc.
Agreed. But do you think all parents do what you did? If you think that...
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Old 02-18-2024, 10:16 AM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,659 posts, read 3,861,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
Believe me, with all of the nonsense that goes on in public schools, you are better off teaching your own kids "life" skills.
How much does this realistically happen considering the dysfunction in many families? Even if healthy, many don’t understand (or think much about) mental health or relationship/social skills themselves (and certainly don’t have an educational background in any of it), yet alone take the time to teach their kids relative to such.

Obviously, information is often better received/discussed (and more accurate) if it is taught in an educational setting, separate from their parents.
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Old 02-18-2024, 12:37 PM
 
12,837 posts, read 9,041,939 times
Reputation: 34899
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I was considered to be a relatively strict principal, but at the same time believing in LDA -- least drastic action needed TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. The more a particular student acted out, the more drastic the consequence had to be. We did have a somewhat reactionary group of teachers on our faculty...is chewing gum really a reason for permanent expulsion...especially when a third of the faculty admitted they chewed gum in school???

But, it's very important for the teacher to be the main person maintaining discipline in the classroom, and to send students to the office only when it's something they can't handle. Every time a teacher sends a kid to the office, there's a kid or several who think, "see, he (or she) can't handle us". Teachers need to be strong.

Academic standards? What can I say. We were considered to be one of the 5 best middle schools out of over 500 in the state...and one of the best, if not the best, gifted programs.
Ok, so where is the disagreement here? I don't think kids should be expelled for chewing gum either. On the other hand, those small handfull that are constant disrupters should be out the door so they don't disrupt the kids who do want to learn. The kids who have trouble learning? They shouldn't be punished or humiliated by the teacher, but the also need to be in a separate classroom that can focus on what they need. Because they too are disrupting the rest of the class.

For the academic standards, so you support grading to the standard (note, I don't believe in grading to a "bell curve" but to standards), so that an A is an A and an F is an F? No social promotions (or whatever is the current name for the same thing) or 0=50 or so forth?

If you agree on these things, we're probably in 80% agreement with the basics and now need to work on implementation.
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Old 02-18-2024, 12:57 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,344 posts, read 60,534,984 times
Reputation: 60925
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Ok, so where is the disagreement here? I don't think kids should be expelled for chewing gum either. On the other hand, those small handfull that are constant disrupters should be out the door so they don't disrupt the kids who do want to learn. The kids who have trouble learning? They shouldn't be punished or humiliated by the teacher, but the also need to be in a separate classroom that can focus on what they need. Because they too are disrupting the rest of the class.

For the academic standards, so you support grading to the standard (note, I don't believe in grading to a "bell curve" but to standards), so that an A is an A and an F is an F? No social promotions (or whatever is the current name for the same thing) or 0=50 or so forth?

If you agree on these things, we're probably in 80% agreement with the basics and now need to work on implementation.
Great in theory but you have to remember that schools are restrained by what is allowed by whomever the governing body is. Some states, like Pennsylvania, give local School Boards a lot of autonomy to manage their affairs, while others, like Maryland, are top down governance from the Maryland State Board of Education.

In Maryland the driving issue was, and still is, "disparate impact". So, school systems were ordered to adopt discipline policies that reflected that one or another student cohort was being disciplined for various infractions at a higher rate than other ones and downgrade the consequences.

Examples of behaviors where the penalties were lessened were insubordination, classroom disruption, assault on a staff member, possession of drugs and possession of a weapon.
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Old 02-18-2024, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,777 posts, read 24,289,888 times
Reputation: 32918
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Ok, so where is the disagreement here? I don't think kids should be expelled for chewing gum either. On the other hand, those small handfull that are constant disrupters should be out the door so they don't disrupt the kids who do want to learn. The kids who have trouble learning? They shouldn't be punished or humiliated by the teacher, but the also need to be in a separate classroom that can focus on what they need. Because they too are disrupting the rest of the class.

For the academic standards, so you support grading to the standard (note, I don't believe in grading to a "bell curve" but to standards), so that an A is an A and an F is an F? No social promotions (or whatever is the current name for the same thing) or 0=50 or so forth?

If you agree on these things, we're probably in 80% agreement with the basics and now need to work on implementation.
The disagreement is that it seems as if you are the 'constant critic' of 'all' schools.
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Old 02-18-2024, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,777 posts, read 24,289,888 times
Reputation: 32918
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Great in theory but you have to remember that schools are restrained by what is allowed by whomever the governing body is. Some states, like Pennsylvania, give local School Boards a lot of autonomy to manage their affairs, while others, like Maryland, are top down governance from the Maryland State Board of Education.

In Maryland the driving issue was, and still is, "disparate impact". So, school systems were ordered to adopt discipline policies that reflected that one or another student cohort was being disciplined for various infractions at a higher rate than other ones and downgrade the consequences.

Examples of behaviors where the penalties were lessened were insubordination, classroom disruption, assault on a staff member, possession of drugs and possession of a weapon.
One of the problems I had was in automatic penalties for certain behaviors. I did feel that -- to an extent -- discipline needed to be individualized.
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