Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-08-2024, 09:04 AM
 
2,040 posts, read 990,078 times
Reputation: 6154

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Gym class...what they taught us - how to play a bunch of dodgeball/sportsball games I'd never play as an adult and didn't want to play as a kid either, as well as some tumbling and a lot of running around a track. How to dance the Electric Slide for some freaking reason.
For us we once spent a month or so practicing 1920s flapper/jitterbug dance moves. I think they let you opt out if you hated it, which I did, but then you had to go run in circles around the school yard instead.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-08-2024, 09:23 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,323 posts, read 60,500,026 times
Reputation: 60911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Gym class...what they taught us - how to play a bunch of dodgeball/sportsball games I'd never play as an adult and didn't want to play as a kid either, as well as some tumbling and a lot of running around a track. How to dance the Electric Slide for some freaking reason.

What I wish they'd taught - how to properly/safely use common exercise equipment, how to do more home workout stuff besides sit ups and push ups, possibly a martial arts elective series. I actually recommend martial arts for every kid, although sadly not all families can afford it. Not because it teaches fighting skills or self defense, but because it teaches self control and confidence.
I'm going to use this as an example.

Most of you who haven't been in a high school classroom for decades are relating what was done when you were in school, in some cases five or six decades ago.

Using the PE example (and we did one entire year, twice a week, of nothing but calisthenics) what was done then is not done now, where the focus is on lifetime sports and physical fitness. It's not "throw out a bag of balls". As a note, "Dance" has been infused in PE since at least the 1960s and the standalone Dance class counts as a PE in some states.

It's just like you guys who say they've gotten rid of Civics or Home Ec (I'll address tnff later about that) when all that's happened is the name has changed. In Maryland Civics is called Local, State and National Government while Home Ec is Family and Consumer Sciences which is an umbrella for several different classes including cooking, cuisines, fashion design and child development (which in many systems infused a school run, advanced student staffed, pre-school).

TNFF, if your local system doesn't have FaCS check into its accreditation. That is required, or was, in the markers for full regional accreditation.

And Senior English isn't "diagramming sentences", it's a Literature based course, usually American, British or Modern (school systems vary).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 09:43 AM
 
24,471 posts, read 10,804,014 times
Reputation: 46736
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
-High schools not offering many classes on the trades, driver's ed, or ANY skills on money management
-No classes on impulse control, self-discipline, conflict resolution, etc.
-University not offering job training or white-collar apprenticeships, forcing graduates into the catch-22 involving jobs and job experience (I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about).

Why?

Serious question.
I do not know what schools you went to but all this is being taught all over the US from HS to university. Most banks offer internships some with future employment options, banking/finance sessions at HS and colleges plus industry information and buddy systems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
The only one complaining about local control seems to be you. You mention it so often. Do you have a problem with taxpayers having a say?

We aren't complaining about the cost of educating children. Just about the money wasted on front office "education professionals" who "aren't to blame" for anything (so why are they there if they aren't responsible for anything?), when that money could be spent on classroom teachers. Who wants to spend a Macy's price when we aren't even getting Walmart quality?

Of course, considering how Macy's is doing, perhaps their business model isn't what schools should follow.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/18/macy...cut-costs.html
I stand by everything I wrote in that post.

Over time in this forum, not wanting the federal government to influence education and wanting more local control is a continuing theme, whether you like to pretend it isn't or not.

No, you want to hold an individual administrator responsible for all the ills of the educational system, regardless of whether or not his school is being successful and may be a model school. Doesn't matter if his school was in the top 5%...you want to blame him for the schools that aren't.

But thank you, at least, for admitting that you want a Wal-Mart type education.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 10:30 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,286,698 times
Reputation: 45726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Gym class...what they taught us - how to play a bunch of dodgeball/sportsball games I'd never play as an adult and didn't want to play as a kid either, as well as some tumbling and a lot of running around a track. How to dance the Electric Slide for some freaking reason.

What I wish they'd taught - how to properly/safely use common exercise equipment, how to do more home workout stuff besides sit ups and push ups, possibly a martial arts elective series. I actually recommend martial arts for every kid, although sadly not all families can afford it. Not because it teaches fighting skills or self defense, but because it teaches self control and confidence.
Gym class always emphasized team sports and I imagine it does to this day in most if not all schools.

Ideally, the kids would learn more about personal fitness and nutrition. I think there is a reason though why the classes are structured the way they are. The concept is that team sports get all the kids involved. Its easier for the teacher to manage them that way. Personal fitness requires instruction that is on the level of tutoring and isn't very practical when a teacher has to manage a class of 30-40 students.

There are a number of things that would be easier if teachers didn't have to manage 25-40 students at a time, but for budget reasons it is unlikely to change. I realized parenting young kids that there was much difference between the education I wanted my children to get and the education that was practical for the schools to actually give them.

There is another point which didn't particularly apply to me and my career choice. However, team sports teach the idea of working together. This is probably a valuable skill for students who grow up and get a job in a corporate or government setting (in my case it was not helpful as a lawyer in private practice).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 11:03 AM
 
12,832 posts, read 9,029,433 times
Reputation: 34873
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I'm going to use this as an example.

Most of you who haven't been in a high school classroom for decades are relating what was done when you were in school, in some cases five or six decades ago.

Using the PE example (and we did one entire year, twice a week, of nothing but calisthenics) what was done then is not done now, where the focus is on lifetime sports and physical fitness. It's not "throw out a bag of balls". As a note, "Dance" has been infused in PE since at least the 1960s and the standalone Dance class counts as a PE in some states.

It's just like you guys who say they've gotten rid of Civics or Home Ec (I'll address tnff later about that) when all that's happened is the name has changed. In Maryland Civics is called Local, State and National Government while Home Ec is Family and Consumer Sciences which is an umbrella for several different classes including cooking, cuisines, fashion design and child development (which in many systems infused a school run, advanced student staffed, pre-school).

TNFF, if your local system doesn't have FaCS check into its accreditation. That is required, or was, in the markers for full regional accreditation.

And Senior English isn't "diagramming sentences", it's a Literature based course, usually American, British or Modern (school systems vary).
Just to be sure I just again went through all the course syllabi for all the courses at the local high school. Nope, nothing that resembles FaCS in any of the course syllabi.

Regarding English, the content depends on the individual teacher. The syllabi list very different content between the teachers. Same course name but one teacher is focused on old British Lit (Beowulf and Shakespear), another on 20th century American Lit, and two on grammar and composition. And ACT prep for juniors. When my oldest went through, they focused on college essays.

I understand what you are saying, but there is often a big difference between what schools claim to do or are supposed to do, and the boots on the ground reality of what they really do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Just to be sure I just again went through all the course syllabi for all the courses at the local high school. Nope, nothing that resembles FaCS in any of the course syllabi.

Regarding English, the content depends on the individual teacher. The syllabi list very different content between the teachers. Same course name but one teacher is focused on old British Lit (Beowulf and Shakespear), another on 20th century American Lit, and two on grammar and composition. And ACT prep for juniors. When my oldest went through, they focused on college essays.

I understand what you are saying, but there is often a big difference between what schools claim to do or are supposed to do, and the boots on the ground reality of what they really do.
So you, as a community member, and a constant critic of schools, you have done nothing to advocate at the local level for what you think your schools should include. You haven't actively participated in school board meetings. You haven't volunteered to participate in local or state study groups with the purpose of improving your school district. You've taken the easy way out -- writing snide, accusatory posts about educators across the United States.

I would have to say that there is a big difference between what critics claim and what they actually do to bring about change.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
1,687 posts, read 1,268,254 times
Reputation: 3679
Because "the man" wants us to be poor, uneducated, weak, and unhealthy. Teaching us otherwise goes against the agenda.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 12:50 PM
 
Location: WA
5,439 posts, read 7,726,033 times
Reputation: 8538
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Our state has a list like that too. But what if we look at it dispassionately rather than "because we've done it that way?" Do most kids really need four years of English in high school? They've been taking it for years already. Does an extra year of diagraming sentences really mean anything for most kids? I'd even argue that it's redundant for college bound kids since all freshmen get another year of it anyway.

Same question for math? Are most people best served by three years of high school math or would they be better served by two years of math (algebra 2 & geometry) and then a year of basic finance math (bank balances, interest earned vs interest paid, etc?

I can buy three years of social studies if it includes at least a year of US History and a year of US government & civics.

I understand having foreign language, but I'd move that earlier, like elementary school, where learning languages is easier.

A year of art & music? Why even require that? Seems like we're OK with mandating art & music, but not OK with mandating a year of basic shop skills or basic cooking and household skills?

With minimal changes, there's time in the schedule to add a year of basic shop and repair skills; basic cooking and household skills; and basic personal finance skills just by goring some sacred college bound cows. All of which could still be offered as electives for those who want them.
I'm just pointing out WHY things are they way they are. Individual schools and school districts don't decide these things. They are decided [democratically] by state legislatures and implemented by state departments of education.

As for the actual WHY of all of these graduation standards. I would have to guess that it is probably a combination of:

1. Colleges around the country informing states as to what their minimum and preferred set of HS courses is for incoming freshman. In other words, what a basic college preparatory curriculum looks like.

2. Standardized testing under "No Child Left Behind", "Race to the Top", "Common Core" and now the SAT/ACT which are being used in some states to evaluate individual school and student performance. These standardized tests are heavily weighted towards math and English and so schools and states are going to emphasize those subjects. Washington doesn't want its students to perform worse than Texas on things like the SAT. And then within each state and district, ever school wants to be the top rated schools based on test scores. So they all want their students to perform well on standardized testing with is mostly math and English

3. It is what the public and business world expects. The general public expects schools all students to at LEAST be proficient in math and English before dabbling in other more esoteric topics. And the employers want their employees to at least come in with good math and English skills. They can teach their employees how to repair photocopiers, or rebuild transmissions, drive a truck, or wire a house. But they can't start from scratch and teach them reading, writing, and math.

4. Electives can be more limiting than you might think if a student has a specific interest. For example, two of my daughters were in their HS marching bands. If you are going to do marching band all 4 years, boom, that is 4 out of your 5 electives sucked up right there. Same if you are into drama or any other specific thing. It eats up all your electives.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2024, 01:01 PM
 
Location: WA
5,439 posts, read 7,726,033 times
Reputation: 8538
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Gym class always emphasized team sports and I imagine it does to this day in most if not all schools.

Ideally, the kids would learn more about personal fitness and nutrition. I think there is a reason though why the classes are structured the way they are. The concept is that team sports get all the kids involved. Its easier for the teacher to manage them that way. Personal fitness requires instruction that is on the level of tutoring and isn't very practical when a teacher has to manage a class of 30-40 students.
You are out of date. My youngest daughter is in HS and just finished her PE requirement. She had a choice of:

powerlifting (individual in the enormous HS weight room)
aerobics (individual run like a health club aerobics class with Zumba and the like)
yoga/pilates (individual)
power walking (individual)
General PE (typical gym or outdoor team stuff)

As for nutrition? that was a major component of their required health class.

At the elementary level things may be different and more group/team stuff. But at HS it is now pretty individually focused and run more like a typical fitness club in many ways with an a la carte menu of options.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top