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Old 03-17-2024, 03:16 PM
 
Location: WA
5,444 posts, read 7,740,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
The border states have unique issues due to immigration.
But it ISN'T the inner-city schools with large immigrant populations that are moving to 4-day school weeks. Nor is it schools along the border in towns like McAllen and Brownsville that get the most immigrants.

It is rural schools that are predominantly white (or not flooded with immigrants) that are doing so.

Here is a current map of all 80 school districts in Texas that have moved to 4-day weeks. This is a map of small conservative rural districts where people don't like paying school taxes. Not districts affected by immigration waves. Source: https://www.kxan.com/news/education/...our-day-weeks/

Hey, I'm a teacher and I'd be happy to work a 4-day workweek for the same pay. But I don't think for a second it would actually be better for my students on the actual merits.

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Old 03-17-2024, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Fortunately, there are many great reasons beyond BIS (butt-in-seat) for delivering a quality and effective education. As is very obvious in the WW
academic stats. You don't have to harness the students to a high number of classroom hours to convey learnings. Plenty do fine, (even excellent ) without classrooms.

No single formula works for all. Not to cattle, poultry, fish, swine, lamb, or even your students.
Provide us with some data to support that...especially when you have to serve a thousand students in a school or 179,858 in a district.
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Old 03-18-2024, 05:17 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,096 posts, read 18,269,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
But it ISN'T the inner-city schools with large immigrant populations that are moving to 4-day school weeks. Nor is it schools along the border in towns like McAllen and Brownsville that get the most immigrants.

It is rural schools that are predominantly white (or not flooded with immigrants) that are doing so.

Here is a current map of all 80 school districts in Texas that have moved to 4-day weeks. This is a map of small conservative rural districts where people don't like paying school taxes. Not districts affected by immigration waves. Source: https://www.kxan.com/news/education/...our-day-weeks/

Hey, I'm a teacher and I'd be happy to work a 4-day workweek for the same pay. But I don't think for a second it would actually be better for my students on the actual merits.
Those schools would be Title 1 and get extra money from the Federal Government.
You have to take that into account as well as it amounts to tens of millions to hundreds of millions each year.

I worked in Title 1 schools under the various grants. They paid very well and I was almost quasi attached to the school ....they just didn't want to do all the paperwork involved so I did my own (about 12 pages worth every session and I worked 3 days a week)...I got paid for that extra hour of paperwork whereas the school staff would not get paid.
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Old 03-18-2024, 07:18 PM
 
Location: WA
5,444 posts, read 7,740,196 times
Reputation: 8554
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Those schools would be Title 1 and get extra money from the Federal Government.
You have to take that into account as well as it amounts to tens of millions to hundreds of millions each year.

I worked in Title 1 schools under the various grants. They paid very well and I was almost quasi attached to the school ....they just didn't want to do all the paperwork involved so I did my own (about 12 pages worth every session and I worked 3 days a week)...I got paid for that extra hour of paperwork whereas the school staff would not get paid.
Is there anything in Title 1 that mandates 5 day-school weeks?

I seriously doubt it. Some of those rural Texas schools that have gone to 4-day weeks are also Title 1 schools. Especially those in rural East Texas which is as poor and minority as any part of the country. For example, here is one rural school district that I happen to be familiar with from when we lived in Texas. The Marlin School District, which is on 4-day weeks. https://www.niche.com/k12/d/marlin-i...l-district-tx/

If you scroll down to the student demographics you will find that the school district is 98% free and reduced lunch and the racial profile is 55% Black, 37% Hispanic and 6% White.

That is about as Title 1 as you can possibly get.

Last edited by texasdiver; 03-18-2024 at 07:28 PM..
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Old 03-18-2024, 08:08 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,096 posts, read 18,269,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Is there anything in Title 1 that mandates 5 day-school weeks?

I seriously doubt it. Some of those rural Texas schools that have gone to 4-day weeks are also Title 1 schools. Especially those in rural East Texas which is as poor and minority as any part of the country. For example, here is one rural school district that I happen to be familiar with from when we lived in Texas. The Marlin School District, which is on 4-day weeks. https://www.niche.com/k12/d/marlin-i...l-district-tx/

If you scroll down to the student demographics you will find that the school district is 98% free and reduced lunch and the racial profile is 55% Black, 37% Hispanic and 6% White.

That is about as Title 1 as you can possibly get.
I'm familiar with Marlin. They got taken over by the state a few times - town's no better.

4 day week won't help that district.
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Old 03-18-2024, 11:00 PM
 
Location: WA
5,444 posts, read 7,740,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
I'm familiar with Marlin. They got taken over by the state a few times - town's no better.

4 day week won't help that district.
The reason they went to 4-day weeks is because it was the only way they could attract teachers. No one is going live in Waco or Temple and drive out to Marlin to earn less money than you can locally at Waco or Temple schools. But for a 4-day work week some will. Plus they save on everything else from cafeteria workers to bus drivers.

It has zip to do with improving the education at that school.
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Old 03-19-2024, 06:39 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,096 posts, read 18,269,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
The reason they went to 4-day weeks is because it was the only way they could attract teachers. No one is going live in Waco or Temple and drive out to Marlin to earn less money than you can locally at Waco or Temple schools. But for a 4-day work week some will. Plus they save on everything else from cafeteria workers to bus drivers.

It has zip to do with improving the education at that school.

It's only The studies that say it improves learning- the kids have all this extra time for studying and homework

The people in the ivory tower live in a different world.
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Old 03-19-2024, 08:12 AM
 
7,342 posts, read 4,134,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
It's only The studies that say it improves learning- the kids have all this extra time for studying and homework

The people in the ivory tower live in a different world.
Hahahahaha!

So a stay-at-home parent or a paid babysitter is responsible for the one day a week where the kids studies and completes homework? So the kid basically homeschooled one day a week. How realistic is this?

Hahahahaha!
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Old 03-19-2024, 10:25 AM
 
Location: WA
5,444 posts, read 7,740,196 times
Reputation: 8554
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
It's only The studies that say it improves learning- the kids have all this extra time for studying and homework

The people in the ivory tower live in a different world.
So I supposed 3-day weeks would be even better!
And if we REALLY want to ramp up student achievement, only send them to school 2-days/week.

Sheesh.

Of course if you actually look at the research the results are not so clear: https://www.edweek.org/leadership/fo...-weeks/2023/02

In Oklahoma

Quote:
Shortened school weeks may have made Oklahoma middle and high schools calmer and safer, though the model has done nothing to improve students’ attendance or academic achievement.

A study, in the journal of Educational Research and Policy Analysis, tracked student performance over a dozen years and attendance and discipline over nine years, as 411 districts across the state adopted the four-day model for at least some of their schools.

After moving to shortened weeks, schools saw on average a 39 percent drop in bullying and a 31 percent decline in the number of fights and assaults on campus. To put that into perspective, that’s a nearly twice as large an effect as the average 20 percent drop in bullying behaviors seen for common school-based anti-bullying programs.

“You hear over and over again, from students, from teachers, that kids are happier, that there’s increased morale, there’s improved school climate, there’s positive effects on school discipline,” said Emily Morton, a research scientist at the Center for School and Student Progress at NWEA and the author of the study.

However, shortened schedules had no effect on discipline problems related to drugs or alcohol, vandalism, truancy, school bus misbehavior, or bringing weapons to school. Likewise, the study found no significant difference in SAT scores, attendance rates and truancy, or disciplinary infractions for vandalism for high school students who attended under shortened weeks.
And Colorado:

Quote:
While many rural districts have favored shortened weeks, one of the first urban school districts to adopt the model—School District 27J outside Denver—saw academic and community downsides.

A study released in January found that two years after making the schedule change, the district’s implementation costs outweighed its cost savings, while student academic achievement fell significantly. Moreover, retention was 3 percentage points lower for teachers—and 5 percentage points lower for veteran teachers of 15 years or more—in schools with four-day weeks than in similar ones with traditional five-day weeks.

“This finding does not necessarily mean that teachers do not value a [four-day week]. Instead, it suggests that the teachers that [left the district] were unwilling to trade off the higher salaries offered by outside opportunities for the benefits offered by a [four-day week schedule],” researchers concluded.

The researchers found local home values dropped 4 percent in the communities with four-day school weeks compared to those just over the border in a different district with traditional schedules. As a result, homeowners paid $700 to $6,000 more than they would have in property taxes.
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Old 03-19-2024, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
The reason they went to 4-day weeks is because it was the only way they could attract teachers. No one is going live in Waco or Temple and drive out to Marlin to earn less money than you can locally at Waco or Temple schools. But for a 4-day work week some will. Plus they save on everything else from cafeteria workers to bus drivers.

It has zip to do with improving the education at that school.
It reminds a bit of "middle school". I have worked in middle schools that were 5-8, 7-8, and 7-9. And my conclusion was that most districts decided on what "middle school" was by determining what existing buildings could best/most-efficiently be utilized for the middle school. It seemed to have little do with what was best from a purely educational perspective.
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