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Old 03-12-2024, 08:27 AM
 
7,320 posts, read 4,115,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
I'm just pushing back on the notion (often promoted by teachers) that teachers get nowhere near 3 months off work. You hear this vigorously repeated again and again. Even by teacher unions. I'm a teacher and have been for 17 years and I've always had around 3 months off when you add it all up including Christmas and Spring Break and the other holidays and snow days scattered through the year. I also know what it is like to work a regular professional job when you are lucky to get 3-4 weeks off. I didn't get into teaching until about 40 years old.
My daughter is a high school English teacher. She grades five to three page essays for over a hundred students every couple of weeks. All grades have to be posted online within a couple of days of the deadline. It's labor intensive work. She spends evenings and weekends grading.

She had a NYC office job which was much easier. She had weekends free!

With STEM, where answers are right or wrong, then homework correct is quick. Also some teachers have online tests and grading. However, old fashioned line-by-line grading is time consuming.
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Old 03-12-2024, 10:32 AM
 
Location: WA
5,439 posts, read 7,726,033 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
My daughter is a high school English teacher. She grades five to three page essays for over a hundred students every couple of weeks. All grades have to be posted online within a couple of days of the deadline. It's labor intensive work. She spends evenings and weekends grading.

She had a NYC office job which was much easier. She had weekends free!

With STEM, where answers are right or wrong, then homework correct is quick. Also some teachers have online tests and grading. However, old fashioned line-by-line grading is time consuming.
Yes, I'm a teacher and it is a real professional job with duties that sometimes extend beyond a strict 40 hour week, just like most other professional jobs on the planet. My wife is a physician and works many many long hours. Vastly more than I do. She is often charting until 8 pm.

And it isn't just English teachers who have extra work. Science teachers often spend many extra hours prepping labs, mixing reagents, cleaning glassware, etc. That is just the sort of thing that goes with having a professional job. I do lots of planning work on evenings and weekends too.

It wasn't much different when I was working as a management biologist for the federal government before I got into teaching. There were many times I worked late and weekends when there were deadlines approaching. And I often had public meetings to travel to and attend that fell on weekends. That is what it means to be a professional and not a wage laborer. My daughter is a marketing director for a media company and it seems that she is always putting out fires and dealing with work beyond her normal work day.

Finding work-life balance is kind of something you just have to figure out and carve out for yourself whatever profession you are in as most of them will demand as much time from you as you are willing to give. Teaching is not unique in that respect but no worse than any other professional job.
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Old 03-12-2024, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,765 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Yes, I'm a teacher and it is a real professional job with duties that sometimes extend beyond a strict 40 hour week, just like most other professional jobs on the planet. My wife is a physician and works many many long hours. Vastly more than I do. She is often charting until 8 pm.

And it isn't just English teachers who have extra work. Science teachers often spend many extra hours prepping labs, mixing reagents, cleaning glassware, etc. That is just the sort of thing that goes with having a professional job. I do lots of planning work on evenings and weekends too.

It wasn't much different when I was working as a management biologist for the federal government before I got into teaching. There were many times I worked late and weekends when there were deadlines approaching. And I often had public meetings to travel to and attend that fell on weekends. That is what it means to be a professional and not a wage laborer. My daughter is a marketing director for a media company and it seems that she is always putting out fires and dealing with work beyond her normal work day.

Finding work-life balance is kind of something you just have to figure out and carve out for yourself whatever profession you are in as most of them will demand as much time from you as you are willing to give. Teaching is not unique in that respect but no worse than any other professional job.
I agree with you...BUT...

Do you earn what your physician wife earns?
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Old 03-12-2024, 10:42 AM
 
Location: WA
5,439 posts, read 7,726,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I agree with you...BUT...

Do you earn what your physician wife earns?
Of course not. But I'm compensated reasonably for the job I do. I didn't have to go through 8 years of college and 3 years of residency before starting teaching. And I don't have the stress of actually having people's lives depending on my decisions and diagnoses, and having people die under my care. And needing to stay absolutely up to date in my profession because lives are at stake. And given that she often puts in 60 hour weeks, the difference in our hourly pay is not as far off as one might think.

Teaching is a hard job, and requires a high degree of professionalism. And it is a profession that is all too often dissed and denigrated, especially by politicians trying to make political points. But it isn't the toughest job either. Most professional jobs are high stress and infringe on work-life balance.
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Old 03-12-2024, 10:48 AM
 
45 posts, read 33,941 times
Reputation: 199
I live in the midwest - and my children have done 4 day school weeks since 2014. WE LOVE IT! There's an after school program that they can attend after school until 5, and 8-5 on Fridays if you can't find care for your young child.

Kids need structure....but I will tell you that when my kids do end up needing to go five days in a specific week...that last day, they are exhausted. SO MUCH is on their little minds, with social events, sports, home life, emotions, LEARNING.....Let them be little. I have always loved the four day weeks for my family.
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Old 03-12-2024, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,765 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Of course not. But I'm compensated reasonably for the job I do. I didn't have to go through 8 years of college and 3 years of residency before starting teaching. And I don't have the stress of actually having people's lives depending on my decisions and diagnoses, and having people die under my care. And needing to stay absolutely up to date in my profession because lives are at stake. And given that she often puts in 60 hour weeks, the difference in our hourly pay is not as far off as one might think.

Teaching is a hard job, and requires a high degree of professionalism. And it is a profession that is all too often dissed and denigrated, especially by politicians trying to make political points. But it isn't the toughest job either. Most professional jobs are high stress and infringe on work-life balance.
Did you get paid for student teaching?
On the other hand: "In the US, the national average medical resident salary is $67,400 annually, according to Medscape's 2023 Residents Salary and Debt Report. Medical residency salaries tend to increase over time, generally starting around $61,000 a year with an additional $2,000 to $5,000 raise each year of residency."

I usually put in 50+ hours per week as an administrator. And the hours I spent in prep as a teacher far exceeded my "clock time".

Yes, there are pressures in the medical field. On the other hand my retired doctor neighbor is getting ready to buy an $80,000 tesla, and my gastroenterologist friend just sold his $4.2 million house. Gee, I can only afford a $450,000 house. BTW, I'm not complaining, just pointing out discrepancies.
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Old 03-12-2024, 12:27 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
Reputation: 12699
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Did you get paid for student teaching?
On the other hand: "In the US, the national average medical resident salary is $67,400 annually, according to Medscape's 2023 Residents Salary and Debt Report. Medical residency salaries tend to increase over time, generally starting around $61,000 a year with an additional $2,000 to $5,000 raise each year of residency."

I usually put in 50+ hours per week as an administrator. And the hours I spent in prep as a teacher far exceeded my "clock time".

Yes, there are pressures in the medical field. On the other hand my retired doctor neighbor is getting ready to buy an $80,000 tesla, and my gastroenterologist friend just sold his $4.2 million house. Gee, I can only afford a $450,000 house. BTW, I'm not complaining, just pointing out discrepancies.
Good point! My son is a doctor and my daughter a teacher. While he was in his residency, my daughter was teaching and making less than he made as a resident.
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Old 03-12-2024, 01:13 PM
 
Location: WA
5,439 posts, read 7,726,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
Good point! My son is a doctor and my daughter a teacher. While he was in his residency, my daughter was teaching and making less than he made as a resident.
And how many hours per week did your son work as a resident? How many all-night calls and weekends did he work?

My wife frequently put in 80+ hour weeks during her residency. And when she was home, all she had time for was sleep.

I think teachers are grossly underpaid in many southern and rural states, especially those that lack collective bargaining. In states that value education and have collective bargaining it seems that teachers are reasonably compensated when you look at the complete package including benefits and retirement.
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Old 03-12-2024, 03:43 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
Reputation: 12699
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
And how many hours per week did your son work as a resident? How many all-night calls and weekends did he work?

My wife frequently put in 80+ hour weeks during her residency. And when she was home, all she had time for was sleep.

I think teachers are grossly underpaid in many southern and rural states, especially those that lack collective bargaining. In states that value education and have collective bargaining it seems that teachers are reasonably compensated when you look at the complete package including benefits and retirement.
Good point, I've heard all these stories. I don't remember him complaining. He is visiting this weekend and I will ask him. It has been eight years since he was a resident.

My wife who is a CRNP actually puts in more hours at work than my son. Medical providers don't all work the same amount as you're probably aware. My wife is charting and making patient calls in the evenings and on weekends. My son spends most of his time in the ICU.
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Old 03-12-2024, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
814 posts, read 580,354 times
Reputation: 2587
I wish we weren't so arrogant when it comes to running our education system and that we might take a look at what other countries do. Like, Japan, for example.

Japanese school children go to school for 200 days per year. In this country, states may mandate the number of days. In CT where I lived and taught, 180 days was the requisite. They attend school five days a week for six hours with a break for lunch whereby they clean their own classrooms (imagine the savings right there). Then they to to after-school programs or study groups.

We prefer to look to countries like Namibia and Yemen, seems like, for inspiration. And we expect to remain a world power...?
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