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Old 03-02-2024, 08:36 PM
 
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I'm curious, for the sake of discussion which classes were in the 70 that were valuable and which classes were not and what your field of study was. The reason I ask is I believe that a lot of what is typically called "gen eds" are repeats of what should be taught in high school and while you might not cut it in half, you could probably eliminate the freshman year of Gen Eds.
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Old 03-02-2024, 08:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I'm curious, for the sake of discussion which classes were in the 70 that were valuable and which classes were not and what your field of study was. The reason I ask is I believe that a lot of what is typically called "gen eds" are repeats of what should be taught in high school and while you might not cut it in half, you could probably eliminate the freshman year of Gen Eds.
Many classes you pass in high school are required again in college. For instance , here in Missouri, even if you had a class on the Missouri constitution which is required in high school, it is required again in college.
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Old 03-02-2024, 10:24 PM
 
Location: WA
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Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
A class on Mindfulness (meditation), a class where you bowled or played pickleball three time a week, a class where you learned how to go camping, etc. Many colleges offer crap classes to fill schedules. If students are required to take the other 50 hours, many will take this crap to bring up their GPA.
I have 3 daughters. One graduated college in 2020, the second is a college junior, and the third is a HS senior scheduled to enter college this coming fall.

Not one has ever taken a single "crap" class to fill out their schedule or "bring up their GPA". They have had to take classes outside their major to fill the requirements of a liberal arts degree. But they were far from "crap" classes. In fact, they were some of the best classes of their college experience.

I had the same experience in college and grad school way back in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Sure you can probably waste your time in lightweight esoteric classes when you are in college. But no one is forcing you to do so to "fill out your schedule" or for any other reason.
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Old 03-02-2024, 10:28 PM
 
Location: WA
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Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Many classes you pass in high school are required again in college. For instance , here in Missouri, even if you had a class on the Missouri constitution which is required in high school, it is required again in college.
I had to look that one up to believe it and sure enough, it is true: https://catalog.umkc.edu/undergradua.../constitution/

You can chalk that one up to the fact that you live in a red state with an incompetent state legislature that wastes its time drawing up such laws instead of actually improving education in the state of Missouri. I note this law was passed by the legislature and signed into law by the governor in 2015.

But basically it appears that you can meet that requirement with any intro course on American History or American government so it isn't like you have to take a whole course just on the Missouri Constitution. You just have to take some history class that mentions it. Including AP US History at a Missouri HS.
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Old 03-03-2024, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Plano, TX
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I'm sure by my "name" on this forum you can tell what my major was. I know in certain STEM fields (and especially engineering), the individual does not have 50 (or maybe even 5) hours of electives that they can fill with "fluff" classes. Also, in these fields I know people who filled out their schedule with the general education and related classes so they would have a less time consuming class because some of their other course work was more brutal. I went to a top-10 CS program, and in more than one instance I was told, expect to spend 30+ hours a week on this course if you want to pass. Also, the program I was in put in place a limit of 3 CS classes a term while I was there because the work was expected to be so time consuming. I suspect this situation is less of a case now, and even the "top" programs care about having more successful majors than weeding people out and having survivors that can adapt and handle anything.
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Old 03-04-2024, 07:52 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Yes, but after 70 hours, I had all necessary core classes to teach. Why have to take another 50 that I did not need just to make some school rich? I took them, but I was able to pay out of pocket. Many young people cannot afford the unneeded classes.
Wait a minute. You went to college in retirement to pick up a teaching certificate or degree? Didn't you already have a BA from earlier in life? If so, your gen-ed courses from back then would apply toward the new BA, so all you should have had to take were the specialized courses, those 70 credits, or thereabouts. Who was advising you? Did you see an academic adviser?
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Old 03-04-2024, 07:57 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
A class on Mindfulness (meditation), a class where you bowled or played pickleball three time a week, a class where you learned how to go camping, etc. Many colleges offer crap classes to fill schedules. If students are required to take the other 50 hours, many will take this crap to bring up their GPA.
Such classes didn't exist at any universities I attended. Are you talking about community college offerings? Those sound like they'd be under a Phys Ed requirement. Be more specific, so people won't think you're just posting cr@p to push some kind of agenda.
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Old 03-04-2024, 08:07 AM
 
Location: South Raleigh
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I have several college degrees incuding two graduate degrees and have yet to see a fluff class. Yes there were classes "beyond" my major ( engineering as undergraduate and physics in graduate school ) but they were all useful, like economics and German.

Moreover, my three children have 10 college degrees between them, including two PhDs, and they also tell me they never took any fluff classes.

And, none of us graduated college or graduate school with any debt. I worked my way through college and the USAF paid for graduate school. I paid for one of my kids to do four years of college and she put herself through graduate school. The other two worked their way through all of it without any assistance from parents and without any debt.

The point is, that some people make poor decisions, borrow more money than they can handle, and then blame the system. And some people ( perhaps many ) graduate from high school without being competent in many basic functions and have to take remedial courses in college.

Would be nice if high school students were taught how to make sensible decisions regarding college and careers.

Oh, and BTW, student financial aid is not the same thing as student debt. Financial aid is in the form of grants or scholarships. Student loans are something else and lead to having debt.
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Old 03-04-2024, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Such classes didn't exist at any universities I attended. Are you talking about community college offerings? Those sound like they'd be under a Phys Ed requirement. Be more specific, so people won't think you're just posting cr@p to push some kind of agenda.
Things like that are legit classes even at major universities. They were called "Leisure Skills" at the university I attended. I took Golf. My oldest took Swing Dance. Youngest did Weights I believe.

Just for grins, I looked up the university I attended, and they have over a hundred leisure skills courses. Including meditation. Everything from woodcraft to camping to turkey hunting, to bass fishing. The list is long. I'm actually glad they have something like that because it gives your mind a break from all study all the time and most of these are things you will use far more in life than medieval literature and stuff like that.
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Old 03-04-2024, 08:31 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Things like that are legit classes even at major universities. They were called "Leisure Skills" at the university I attended. I took Golf. My oldest took Swing Dance. Youngest did Weights I believe.

Just for grins, I looked up the university I attended, and they have over a hundred leisure skills courses. Including meditation. Everything from woodcraft to camping to turkey hunting, to bass fishing. The list is long. I'm actually glad they have something like that because it gives your mind a break from all study all the time and most of these are things you will use far more in life than medieval literature and stuff like that.
PE has expanded to include what are called "Lifetime Sports" or "Skills" that encompass more than the traditional calisthenics and physical fitness (running). That actually started, at least at the college level, back when I attended fifty years ago. I remember Archery, Bowling, Badminton, Tennis, a couple or three levels of Swimming as well as "traditional" PE areas like weightlifting and General Physical Fitness.

I'm guessing your Medieval Literature isn't really an elective (unless someone just wants to take it) but an upper level requirement for Lit majors. Just like Constitutional Theory or International Economic Theory was for me.
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