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Old 03-07-2024, 01:38 PM
Location: Vallejo
21,829 posts, read 25,102,289 times
Reputation: 19060


Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
I had to look that one up to believe it and sure enough, it is true: https://catalog.umkc.edu/undergradua.../constitution/

You can chalk that one up to the fact that you live in a red state with an incompetent state legislature that wastes its time drawing up such laws instead of actually improving education in the state of Missouri. I note this law was passed by the legislature and signed into law by the governor in 2015.

But basically it appears that you can meet that requirement with any intro course on American History or American government so it isn't like you have to take a whole course just on the Missouri Constitution. You just have to take some history class that mentions it. Including AP US History at a Missouri HS.
There's the concept of high school and college level courses. Someone who takes AP English in high school has taken freshman English. Assuming they score adequately (generally a 4 or 5 on the AP test, although some lower tier schools accept 3), they don't retake freshman English 1. They still need upper division English 101. A student that only takes high school English courses has to take freshman English 1 and upper division English 101. AP US history from high school most likely satisfies the history requirement.

Yup. Quick verification and confirmed. AP US History satisfies the US history requirement.

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Old 03-07-2024, 02:13 PM
Location: Vallejo
21,829 posts, read 25,102,289 times
Reputation: 19060
Originally Posted by Pitt Chick View Post
None of us knew what we would major in when we took ninth grade algebra.

Having to take algebra in college is a head-shaker to me, yet alone not being able to pass it the first time.
You should have geometry, and trig, and at least pre-calculus if not AP calc, under your belt by the time you hit college.
A lot of them do. It doesn't mean they know the material though. For example, when I took algebra the teacher didn't know how to graph and we spent most of the year doing diamond problems. Since we never did any real algebra, you could get an A without knowing how to do algebra. Social promotion is the name of the game. I was coming out of high school right as they were in a panic state as they'd just decided to require algebra as a graduation requirement but 40% of high school seniors in the state of California couldn't do algebra. They had to scramble. The requirement was going into effect for the next year and nearly half of students weren't going to be able to graduate anymore. They had to dumb down algebra.
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Old 03-07-2024, 02:35 PM
50,702 posts, read 36,411,320 times
Reputation: 76512
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
To me, there is a simple way to cut student debt. I went to college a few years back after I retired. With 70 hours I had all my core classes done. But to get a degree, I needed 124-128 hours for a degree. Why? Like most students, I filled it with fluff classes that I would never need. What a waste of money. Imagine if they only had to borrow enough money to take 70 hours plus a few special hours for their field. It would cut thousands off the amount of loan needed.

I think it would depend on the field. For OT, I did all the core classes at CC, then transferred to a 4-year for the last 2 years. But it was much more than a few classes I needed for my major, it was 2 years of classes, none of them fluff, then 6 months of 40-hours a week clinical fieldwork (for no pay). I didn't take any fluff classes in CC or my 4-year, in fact for the OT portion 2 years we all had the same classes assigned to us as a group.
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Old 03-07-2024, 05:44 PM
11,630 posts, read 12,691,000 times
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I could see meditation being a very useful course for college students. Learning how to handle test anxiety, the mental and physical discipline required for meditation exercises can be very helpful. I think those types of classes are less than 3 credits.
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Old 03-09-2024, 04:58 AM
8,299 posts, read 3,806,781 times
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Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
My point exactly. My college Algebra teacher commented that 95% of students, even ones who became teachers, would never use Algebra. And many students had to take it twice to pass.
Algebra is typically a high school class (or remedial college class if you aren't prepared for college). You simply can't complete college without understanding Algebra... as so much of your education is built on top of the foundation.
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Old 03-09-2024, 05:01 AM
8,299 posts, read 3,806,781 times
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Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I see your point Pitt Chick, but the very fact that you can fill your schedule--post core courses--with "crap" classes makes me question whether the remaining credit hours should be a requirement. There's too much wiggle room, IMO. From where I stand, these other courses, while they may be useful to many, largely serve as a way for colleges and universities to extend their gravy train. I'd be OK with the core classes being all that's required to obtain employment in your intended/related field of work, while also giving others the option to pay to continue taking additional classes if they want.
If all you are worried about is employment at a specific job/field, you are welcome to take the classes that are relevant to you and move on. There's no need to stick to an academic curriculum. Colleges don't mind when students drop out... they know that not everyone is up for completing their college education.

That doesn't make the other classes "crap". They just aren't relevant to you for your specific goal of getting a specific job.

Don't get caught up in the credits. Classes are such a small part of the college education.
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Old 03-09-2024, 05:09 AM
8,299 posts, read 3,806,781 times
Reputation: 5919
Originally Posted by twinkletwinkle22 View Post
I tested out of several required college classes by taking CLEP tests.
I was very poor with no parental support and saved about a semester and a half of money and time (rent, overhead) by taking those CLEP tests in the 70s.

CLEP tests are still around.
Colleges pick and choose which CLEP tests they accept for each major so each college student needs to ask their college directly. I changed my major once I was accepted because it turned out I was more interested in liberal arts than political science and French.

Because of CLEP I never had to take a math or science class, never took foreign language, never took English class.
I got my BA in a little over 2 years time, taking classes over summer.

I'm sure big colleges with low rates of acceptance may not be so generous in accepting CLEP testing.
My degree is from a Florida university and no one has ever asked to see my transcript.
I'm a big fan of CLEP tests as it saves time in college and allows you to focus on the rest of your education. Frankly, 100 level classes are a waste of time if you already know the material. But very few people can actually get a full undergraduate education in 2 years even even with AP and CLEP. Sure, they can finish the classes, but that's about it. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but the vast majority of people need more time in research and academic contribution to be prepared for independent research in the postgraduate programs.
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Old 03-09-2024, 01:54 PM
19,717 posts, read 10,109,755 times
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Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
If those students aspire to add little value to society - say, open boxes, remove bottles of ketchup & put them on a grocery store shelf, then that's probably true (although if they hoped to design the shipping boxes in which those ketchup bottles arrive, then they need math). Ditto for appearing on TikTok videos, or if they aspire to be a "social influencer".

But if they wish to participate in the modern economy, then they should pull on the grown-up pants and learn mathematics. They may not need to understand algebraic topology - but the world going forward is more technical, not less, and a solid foundation in mathematics is table stakes.
Math and Algebra are not the same. Most people only need simple math, not the theoretics of Algebra.
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