Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Celebrating Memorial Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-23-2024, 08:38 AM
 
17,326 posts, read 22,073,418 times
Reputation: 29729

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
What if my dream job is to be a neurosurgeon?

Can I do that without going to college?
That brings up a valid point that the "tik toker wisdom" overlooks.

College degrees are required for many jobs. Some jobs require a degree to even be considered for a position even if the degree is unrelated to the actual job.

Some tik tokers will be successful in whatever they do, they have the drive to promote themselves, which creates a career for themselves but to tell people "you don't need a degree" as a blanket statement is not only ignorant but its going to land people in dead end waitress/bartender type jobs because they listened to bad advice from an influencer!

I think a college degree valuable for many reasons:

1. It shows you continued your education further, you put in the time/expense to educate yourself
2. You network with your peers, this can be a professional level or personal level. If you are a cashier at a gas station are you going to marry someone that has a corporate job? No, your paths don't cross on that level but if you both went to college and both have corporate jobs then you have a chance to meet.
3. College is often associated with debt. The smart student doesn't acquire any debt or at least keeps it to a minimum. In my own family (NO DEBTS for 2 siblings/ strong career paths/long term marriages, everyone has 4 yr degree or higher, 2 siblings are deadbeats/unpaid loans for years and financially unstable/shaky career paths and personal lives).

I do not believe in loan debt. 168 hours in a week, school might take 25 hours a week no reason someone can't work 20-30-40 hours a week to pay for school. I went to a private university, paid my own tuition every semester. Yes it took more than 4 years to graduate but it worked out. Too many kids borrow the max, party and spend then can't pay back the money! If the loans get cut to lower amounts, the kids can't get into financial trouble and the expensive schools will suddenly need to discount tuition if they want to keep the enrollment up!

I attended an event at Duke University 5 years back. Within 15 minutes of the presentation they announced the tuition/dorm was $72,000 a year, you had to live on campus for 3 years (dorms $$$$) and they had a financial needs department you could speak with to figure out how to pay for your undergrad degree.
72 X 4 yrs = $300,000++++++ with annual increases. NFW is that good math for an undergrad degree and the interest alone is going to crush you. A truly smart student would see that the "Duke Blue Devils" sweatshirt wasn't worth cost of the tuition. 300K is a luxury. ME: I'd rather see the kid go to school 10 miles away at UNC Chapel Hill for 25% of the Duke money and give the kid the $225,000 difference to start their lives upon graduation!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-23-2024, 08:46 AM
 
6,353 posts, read 11,598,384 times
Reputation: 6314
The TN governor was a HVAC contractor, that's probably rare among the governor ranks.

High schools teach welding, construction and a huge variety of vo-tech skills. One campus has a radio station.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 09:11 AM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,349 posts, read 13,954,770 times
Reputation: 18283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
In a sane world, High Schools would already fill this function, instead of acting like every single kid will be off to college. Leave it to the free market to do what the government schools are failing to do, but how many people can they reach and is it too late?

High schools all over America should be teaching this in Junior year.
What the hell is a government school?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 10:07 AM
 
19,803 posts, read 18,104,944 times
Reputation: 17290
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOinGA View Post
How much do you really know about what "government schools" are currently doing? I worked in school construction. The high schools we built had classrooms designed and very well-equipped to house vocational programs.

However, a high school also needs to teach core curriculum. Every student should have basic math, English, science and history knowledge, no matter their future path. There is not enough time in the school year to be all things to all kids.

Students going into the vocations should be urged to further their training in community college and not expect a high school to be able to provide them with all of the skills they will need. I do agree that there should be exposure to the vocations in high school so that students are aware of the many choices they have for their futures. In Tennessee, community college is free.
I kick in a little money towards a program in North Texas that provides a smooth/proctored transition from high school vocational training to CC centered vocational school. Mostly welding, CDL, electrical, plumbing and HVAC related. Outside those who are self destructive grads always find work and usually careers.

It's an amazing thing to watch, from a far of course, kids - boys and girls - who often struggle with regular curriculum thrive through hand work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 01:34 PM
 
Location: In the elevator!
835 posts, read 478,242 times
Reputation: 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
What if my dream job is to be a neurosurgeon?

Can I do that without going to college?
You can’t, but not because being a neurosurgeon cannot be taught outside of a college setting. Obviously, there are more ways than one to teach any given subject matter, it’s that the powers that be decided that the only way to be a trained neurosurgeon is to go through college.

Many confuse not being able to do something, to be identical to not wanting to do something (or, my favorite, people confuse having to make a tough decision with being out of options) to be identical concepts. They aren’t identical, and we have separate terminology, and concepts, of these actions, for a reason.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,972 posts, read 75,229,826 times
Reputation: 66945
Depends on what your dream job is, doesn't it? And the requirements of the employer? I shake my head at these ridiculous blanket statements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
In a sane world, High Schools would already fill this function, instead of acting like every single kid will be off to college
No high school I know of believes every single kid will be off to college. That's just ridiculous and unrealistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
In a lot of places vo-tech became a dirty word in school.
It was at my school, too, but that never stopped anyone from getting a tech school education if that was what they wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Vo-tech is important, and often is a lifeline - but not always a solution. Unfortunately, it is an element of the failed USA education system, and thus does not deliver employable candidates.
Well, that's just wrong. This is old data (from 2009), but there's no reason to think it still wouldn't be valid:

Quote:
Compared to students who earn an academic credential, a higher proportion of students who earn an occupational credential were employed in 2009. Among employed completers, a higher proportion of those with an occupational credential report working in a job related to their field of study, compared to those with an academic credential.
https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ctes/fig..._2016107-2.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOinGA View Post
However, a high school also needs to teach core curriculum. Every student should have basic math, English, science and history knowledge, no matter their future path.
Vocational students are required to earn the same credits in core curriculum as required by their individual states as students who are not enrolled in vocational programs. They need to take the same math, science, English, and history classes in order to get a diploma.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 05:12 PM
 
12,852 posts, read 9,067,991 times
Reputation: 34942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
No high school I know of believes every single kid will be off to college. That's just ridiculous and unrealistic.

.
Of course it's ridiculous and unrealistic, but I've heard it made before. Regardless many operate from the assumption that any kid can go to college. Once you make that assumption, then the whole school set up becomes the same as if it were every kid. Net result is the school acts like it believes that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
It was at my school, too, but that never stopped anyone from getting a tech school education if that was what they wanted.
.
It does however add extra barriers to getting that vo-tech education. Again, using my kids' school as an example there were several college prep options on site -- honors, AP, and even some CC courses taught at the high school. And they'd even arrange for distance learning if a college prep course wasn't available locally. Vo-tech students on the other hand, had to travel to the next county over where there was a tech school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 05:22 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,349 posts, read 13,954,770 times
Reputation: 18283
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post

Or... There are alternatives. No School! Total aggregate cost for our kids was under $20k, including college. (Inexpensive state U's)
No school? I thought you home schooled? I thought everyone in your family went to college for free in Europe. If they didn't go to college for free in what years did they attend college? I'm calling BS on the $20k.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 05:26 PM
 
Location: USA
9,155 posts, read 6,202,297 times
Reputation: 30089
Ahhh- I remember the olden days when people went to university to be educated.

My art history, music appreciation, and philosophy classes didn't directly help me get a job but made me a more interesting person.

Being a more interesting, educated person helped me get jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2024, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,652 posts, read 14,008,920 times
Reputation: 18861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Chick View Post
True enough, college is NOT for everyone.

But the title "You don't need to go to college to find your dream job, 'degree free' entrepreneur says" then is incorrect.... if you dream job is being a doctor, being a lawyer. being an engineer, being a nurse, etc.
And more than that.

One of my motivational coffee mugs says the like of "If you have built castles in the sky, your efforts need not be wasted; build foundations under them!".

That piece of paper is no guarantee but it can help tell an employer if one is just a dreamer or if they have the know how to put things into reality.

There is a The Twilight Zone episode, Of Late I Think of Cliffordville, that shows the folly of a man of dreams without foundations.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734605..._flmg_eps_tt_1
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top