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Old 03-27-2024, 05:28 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,581 posts, read 28,687,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What's common sense to one person often isn't common sense to another person.
Not spending tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars on a degree that has little or no market value should be common sense to everybody.

(unless they are among the very few who have so much money to begin with that it doesn’t matter)
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Old 03-27-2024, 06:17 AM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,928 posts, read 3,477,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOinGA View Post
College isn't just about saying you got a degree or even just about getting a certain job. If a student really takes advantage of what a college campus offers, there is a tremendous opportunity for personal growth, broadened knowledge and experiences that they wouldn't have anywhere else. It is a lot to ask of most 18-year-olds to set their specific life goal and, if they can't, to just brush off college. If they are interested and have the ability, in my family, we support going to college. Of course, in a financially smart way.
In my state, in state tuition for a state university is $20,000 a year, and rising annually. That's an $80,000 debt for tuition alone if you get a 4 year degree. It's much higher in many states and most private universities will also cost much more. If you're taking on that kind of debt you better be taking a practical major that will lead you where you want to go career wise. All the other crap largely involves indoctrination nowadays and is more of a bug than a feature, but it's endurable if it gets you where you need to be. Plenty of Starbuck's baristas have learned a harsh lesson about how valuable getting a "well rounded indoctrination" with no real plan for your future really is. I am not against higher education, I'm against doing it for the sake of doing it, and don't think modern economics justifies that approach.

I understand the math is much different in wealthy families that intend to finance their children's educations and I understand athletes and academic scholars with scholarships will see things differently. In the latter case especially though they are likely going in to it with a plan and coming out of it with less of a debt hanging over their heads.
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Old 03-27-2024, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
2,538 posts, read 1,913,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Which is fine if you can afford to do it. But how many families, esp first gen college students, can afford to attend college just for personal growth, knowledge, and experience if they don't have a plan for what they are going to do with it afterward? Without a plan, what do they major in? What courses do they take? What internships do they get?
Most of the first two years are filled with core courses and declaring a major isn't necessary until junior year.

I recall that my daughter was still floundering on choosing her college major when she applied to enter the business school for her junior year. Even then, she was unsure of what area of business would be her focus. Various professors spoke to them and she was attracted by the one that said they had extra scholarship money to offer and all of their graduates got jobs. So, into Risk Management and Insurance she went. I never thought that was the right major for her, but she went for the money. Well, the job guarantee didn't hold up that well for a lot of the students since they graduated into the Recession. Sometimes that "plan" for a job doesn't work out quite the way you expect it to.

My daughter was fortunate that she had a job lined up before graduation and her offer was not rescinded, like a lot were. I was not surprised that she didn't enjoy the work. So, here we were in the middle of the recession and she starts talking about pursuing an MBA as a means to shift her career focus. I was horrified that she would think about leaving a job when so many people were begging for one. However, she applied to 3 schools and one of them offered her an assistantship that covered all of her tuition with an additional stipend for living expenses. Even I didn't think she could pass that up! She got her MBA with a concentration in marketing and supply chain. She has been much happier with her career (and employed) ever since.

My point is that it is often not a straight path from the mind of an 18-year-old to a lifelong career and that is okay. By starting college, she established the foundation for what would become her career, even if the path wasn't one straight line.

As an addendum, she never paid a penny in tuition as her undergraduate degree was covered by the Georgia HOPE scholarship and for graduate school she got the assistantship that I mentioned. She also received several additional smaller grants. All merit. Sometimes students don't do enough to pursue scholarship opportunities. I scoured FastWeb and she applied for everything for which she qualified. That takes work (and nagging from Mom), but it did pay off. I think it could be a missed opportunity for parents to write off college as "too expensive" without really exploring the funding options.
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Old 03-27-2024, 06:39 AM
 
17,326 posts, read 22,073,418 times
Reputation: 29729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz View Post
In my state, in state tuition for a state university is $20,000 a year, and rising annually. That's an $80,000 debt for tuition alone if you get a 4 year degree. It's much higher in many states and most private universities will also cost much more. If you're taking on that kind of debt you better be taking a practical major that will lead you where you want to go career wise. All the other crap largely involves indoctrination nowadays and is more of a bug than a feature, but it's endurable if it gets you where you need to be. Plenty of Starbuck's baristas have learned a harsh lesson about how valuable getting a "well rounded indoctrination" with no real plan for your future really is. I am not against higher education, I'm against doing it for the sake of doing it, and don't think modern economics justifies that approach.

I understand the math is much different in wealthy families that intend to finance their children's educations and I understand athletes and academic scholars with scholarships will see things differently. In the latter case especially though they are likely going in to it with a plan and coming out of it with less of a debt hanging over their heads.
Ok..........you assume the 20K state tuition is 100% financed? A $15 hour a week job working 30 hours a week = $450 before taxes, if it is $400 net then there is your 20K. That excludes working more in summer or during school breaks.

Why finance? 168 hours in the week, you work 30, then 138 hours in the week to sleep,eat,go to school. Seems doable no? Mentioned earlier in this thread that most big corporate employers pay for tuition (McDonalds, Walmart, etc). Why even pay for it, let them!

When it comes to hiring: I'd hire the kid that worked their way through college over Sally sorority or Frankie Frat boy any day.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:00 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,581 posts, read 28,687,607 times
Reputation: 25176
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Ok..........you assume the 20K state tuition is 100% financed? A $15 hour a week job working 30 hours a week = $450 before taxes, if it is $400 net then there is your 20K. That excludes working more in summer or during school breaks.

Why finance? 168 hours in the week, you work 30, then 138 hours in the week to sleep,eat,go to school. Seems doable no? Mentioned earlier in this thread that most big corporate employers pay for tuition (McDonalds, Walmart, etc). Why even pay for it, let them!

When it comes to hiring: I'd hire the kid that worked their way through college over Sally sorority or Frankie Frat boy any day.
Why would anybody go to college for a 4-year degree that has little or no marketable value in the first place, let alone spend $80,000 on it?

Regardless of how it is financed

That is the question I have asked on a number of threads, but nobody seems to want to answer it.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:00 AM
 
8,886 posts, read 4,587,391 times
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lol - when I started at The Big Farm (OSU) in the mid 60s, full time tuition was $100 per quarter (yes we were on a quarter system).

Good times.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:02 AM
 
8,886 posts, read 4,587,391 times
Reputation: 16247
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Why would anybody go to college for a degree that has little or no marketable value in the first place, let alone spend $80,000 on it?

Regardless of how it is financed

That is the question I have asked on a number of threads, but nobody seems to want to answer it.
Because they (student) believe it does have value.

Why did you go to college?
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:04 AM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,928 posts, read 3,477,856 times
Reputation: 11617
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Ok..........you assume the 20K state tuition is 100% financed? A $15 hour a week job working 30 hours a week = $450 before taxes, if it is $400 net then there is your 20K. That excludes working more in summer or during school breaks.

Why finance? 168 hours in the week, you work 30, then 138 hours in the week to sleep,eat,go to school. Seems doable no? Mentioned earlier in this thread that most big corporate employers pay for tuition (McDonalds, Walmart, etc). Why even pay for it, let them!

When it comes to hiring: I'd hire the kid that worked their way through college over Sally sorority or Frankie Frat boy any day.
So would the Starbucks manager looking for a new barista, eh? Or are you hiring people for professional positions that require a practical degree? Then yeah those people should have the degree.

My 20K a year figure was on the extreme low end as I said in my post, and I think I said twice already that if your well considered career path leads through college then it makes sense to go. I don't think it's the automatic default path it used to be when I was growing up though.

We also have a changing workforce and I see more people without advanced degrees rising up to positions that used to always require a degree due to their experience and capability. Even employer mindsets are starting to change in that regard, if slowly.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:44 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,742 posts, read 58,090,525 times
Reputation: 46231
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Ok..........you assume the 20K state tuition is 100% financed? A $15 hour a week job working 30 hours a week = $450 before taxes, if it is $400 net then there is your 20K. That excludes working more in summer or during school breaks.

Why finance? 168 hours in the week, you work 30, then 138 hours in the week to sleep,eat,go to school. Seems doable no? Mentioned earlier in this thread that most big corporate employers pay for tuition (McDonalds, Walmart, etc). Why even pay for it, let them!

When it comes to hiring: I'd hire the kid that worked their way through college over Sally sorority or Frankie Frat boy any day.
This^^^^

Starbucks has a college tuition program, as do many employers.
Private employers will do the same if able (it's partially deductible, and having a valuable employee with initiative and incentive is worth it)

Some employers, (such as Dollywood) have a very generous educational benefit.

Maybe you'll find your dream job while working! (Surprise !) Far greater chance there, than sitting in a classroom.

Cost does not need to be a barrier, there are many low cost college options. (CA is one of the lowest cost ($15k / yr average at state schools) and is a huge network.

There are over 12 colleges in USA that are FREE. I've been to all and interviewed students and faculty there.

There is no reason you can't look beyond the USA, and maybe realize your dream job (or life) is abroad. College is often much cheaper abroad, and also free in some countries (even for USA students.

While pursuing a dream, perhaps you should look beyond following the crowd, expectations of others.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:52 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,742 posts, read 58,090,525 times
Reputation: 46231
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Why would anybody go to college for a 4-year degree that has little or no marketable value in the first place, let alone spend $80,000 on it?

Regardless of how it is financed

That is the question I have asked on a number of threads, but nobody seems to want to answer it.
How well do college kids understand the value of time and money?

Have they been buying the groceries, paying the bills, taking on financial responsibility in the home? Hope so!

Drill down and ask students to explain their decision process to choose to go to college. Interesting answers and you learn a lot when engaging students with probing questions. Hopefully, they learn a lot too!

Maybe you can help them uncover their dreams, or purpose.

We spend several months / year with international college age students, overseas, and in our home. (For over 35 years). Time well spent, for the benefit of others, and for our own enhanced knowledge of other cultures.
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