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View Poll Results: Local Tax Revenue way down, should we:
Raise taxes to keep school funding at current levels 5 45.45%
Keep taxes where they are at and risk lowering the quality of our schools 4 36.36%
I do not know 2 18.18%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-23-2008, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,759,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
In fact, England did a study to prove that exact thing - money made no difference.
That is an entirely different school system. Apples to oranges.

I'm not for "throwing money at the schools" as some say, but neither am I for cutting off funding for teacher pay, the arts, sports, counseling, etc.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:35 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,319,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam82 View Post
Many studies have shown cutting art, drama, computers, music, and physical education will decrease test scores. Art, music, computers, and drama in particular incorporate math, social studies, and literacy into the children's learning.

I would never send my child to a school that provided nothing but the "basics". They would probably be bored out of their mind.

I agree with the person who said administrators and other non teaching positions should be cut. We have at least 5 people in my school who hold "other" non-classroom positions who don't really do too much. Cutting those jobs would save more than $300,000 in my school alone.
I disagaree, and I would venture to say that those 'studies' are funded by teacher unions! I think art, music and other specials are wonderful and certainly benefit a child immensely- but I think that parents should pay for them, not the taxpayer.

Oh, and I don't really care if kids are 'bored' by the core classes. School isn't entertainment.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:36 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,319,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Someone already responded to this in a similar manner as I would, so I will just add to that. In addition to the research-based evidence that these activities keep kids in school, they make for a well-rounded person. Computer education is essential for students today. The arts help make life worth living. Even the "Back to Basics" leaders support the arts. I have no problem with sports as long as they are not a farm system for the colleges. That is an issue in football and basketball, especially in large schools. In the smaller athletic leagues, it is not an issue even in these sports. My kids did both orchestra and sports (gymnastics). They were both team captains their senior year, giving them some leadership opportunities. I watched my younger daughter bring the kids back on task at a team meeting and was very proud of her. They would not have had this opportunity in student government, as they were not part of the "in" crowd.



Paying teachers more can atract good people to the profession.

If the specials are so important, I don't think parents will have a problem paying for them. Our kids are falling behind in math, science and general literacy. We need to get back to basics.
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:57 AM
 
901 posts, read 2,988,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I disagaree, and I would venture to say that those 'studies' are funded by teacher unions! I think art, music and other specials are wonderful and certainly benefit a child immensely- but I think that parents should pay for them, not the taxpayer.

Oh, and I don't really care if kids are 'bored' by the core classes. School isn't entertainment.

There are numerous studies that show that music helps brain development. Music is directly linked to mathematical reasoning. The studies were not done by teachers unions. They were done by researchers in education.

I'm not saying that schools should pay for every child to have private music lessons or art lessons. But group music classes can be very beneficial for children. By having parents pay extra for music classes, you are being unfair to poor and middle class families; families that cannot afford the extra expenses. Many families are just trying to keep their heads above water. Let's be realistic.

If a child is bored all day long, they will tune out the information. Studies also show that children learn better when the knowledge being taught is relevant to them.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,787,921 times
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I think even if a school's funding was cut, as long as the students have great quality teachers, it shouldn't be that bad.

I was under the impression teacher quality and classroom size were the two things that made a positive difference in the education of a child, not how much funding the school received.

I suggest you look up Stupid in America on Youtube.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:47 AM
 
96 posts, read 258,308 times
Reputation: 146
I will never vote for an increase in taxes for education. The amount of money already provided is excessive. There is much so much waste and fraud its unbelievable. Here in Kansas City our public school system is in shambles. We average a new superintendant every 1 to 2 years. They're paid $150-200k and walk away with a golden parachute. In the past new schools have been built with Olympic size swimming pools and 1 school had a fencing coach making 80k a year. How oh how did I graduate high school without fencing? What really ticks me off is how education is funded-why are property owners the only ones being taxed. In major cities most of the students are from families who rent meaning there parents aren't contributing a dime. Why not have a sales tax where everybody is contributing ! I have elderly neighbors on fixed incomes being priced out of their homes by property tax gouging. Even though I own my house outright and have another 15 years to retirement I shudder to think what my property tax will be then. I'll probably sell and relocate to a low tax area just to survive. This shouldn't be happening in the USA!
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,787,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMlover View Post
I will never vote for an increase in taxes for education. The amount of money already provided is excessive. There is much so much waste and fraud its unbelievable. Here in Kansas City our public school system is in shambles. We average a new superintendant every 1 to 2 years. They're paid $150-200k and walk away with a golden parachute. In the past new schools have been built with Olympic size swimming pools and 1 school had a fencing coach making 80k a year. How oh how did I graduate high school without fencing? What really ticks me off is how education is funded-why are property owners the only ones being taxed. In major cities most of the students are from families who rent meaning there parents aren't contributing a dime. Why not have a sales tax where everybody is contributing ! I have elderly neighbors on fixed incomes being priced out of their homes by property tax gouging. Even though I own my house outright and have another 15 years to retirement I shudder to think what my property tax will be then. I'll probably sell and relocate to a low tax area just to survive. This shouldn't be happening in the USA!
My dad and step mom live in KC and they refuse to send my sister to public schools. In any case, have you written to your elected officials?
I am sure you can organize a group together to try to get the education up to par. Write letters to the KC Star, that is the name of the paper there, right? It's been a while since I've seen a paper from Kansas City. I am sure there are many others who feel the same way.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:23 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,319,202 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam82 View Post
There are numerous studies that show that music helps brain development. Music is directly linked to mathematical reasoning. The studies were not done by teachers unions. They were done by researchers in education.

I'm not saying that schools should pay for every child to have private music lessons or art lessons. But group music classes can be very beneficial for children. By having parents pay extra for music classes, you are being unfair to poor and middle class families; families that cannot afford the extra expenses. Many families are just trying to keep their heads above water. Let's be realistic.

If a child is bored all day long, they will tune out the information. Studies also show that children learn better when the knowledge being taught is relevant to them.
I agree that music education is wonderful- I don't think that it needs to be funded by taxpayers.

I don't think that the core subjects are 'boring', it's a shame that people feel that kids won't engage in learning unless they're somehow 'entertained'. I think that's a huge part of the problem with education and child rearing in general. When was the Greatest Generation entertained in their schooling? I think the movement to make things 'fun' have really lowered the bar in the kind of kids we're raising.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,759,995 times
Reputation: 35920
I did a google search on "Back to Basics" education using many different search terms and really couldn't find much, b/c it is an outdated concept that was never really relevant. It was prevalent in the 1980s. I do recall reading an article at the time by one of the "gurus" of BTB, wherein he said it was never his intenetion to remove the arts from 'basic' education.

I don't think these studies supporting the arts were all funded by the teachers's unions. I think this is credible research.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: ATL suburb
1,364 posts, read 4,147,130 times
Reputation: 1580
As many have already stated, we are already seeing budget cuts either directly in schools, or are seeing cuts in fire and/or police services. I am not opposed to some degree of budget cuts, as long as it doesn't affect teacher salaries. If the athletic teams don't get brand new uniforms, I'm sure we can make due. However, I don't think the arts should be cut out. Yes, this country is behind in the core subjects, however, it is more than just that which contributes to our culture and society. We need future Van Goughs and Gershwins as well as Einsteins. Those who are gifted musicians should not be forced to languish in Calculus.

The problem we run into with budget cuts is that those in poor and working middle class area schools are probably going to feel the strain more. In my son's elementary school, the PTA has come up with plans/fundraisers to make up for the money lost with the budget cuts. I'm pretty darn sure we'll have those whiteboards and field trips that wre proposed at the beginning of the year and yes, I'm willing to pay a bit more out of pocket for those things I think may be beneficial. But what do you do about areas which may need to cut funding for tutors, equipment, books, or even salaries?
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