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Carolina Cowboy- Not EVERY state protects its teachers. SC doesn't have a union, teachers CAN and ARE let go.
You state that teachers should show you a a "nice" finished product. Kids ARE Not products. Education shouldn't be based on business models. Teachers did not MANUFACTURE ( BIRTH) the children sitting in classrooms. I am sure if we had control of how the "product" was made to begin with, there wouldn't be as many glitches. We have to take into account all the underlying ISSUES that are inside our "product" that comes to us to learn. We must do this in order to teach them.
Great indirect rebuttal. Typical. To afraid to address me directly, so you talk around me. I'm here, lets debate. I don' bite, promise! What do you disagree with in my post? At least the other teacher here debates on topic. I might not agree, but he argues his points of view well. Generalizing and finger pointing proves nothing.
The summary of my position is based on the following. Very simply to follow.
1. We are tired of the Teacher's union controlling our failing education system. Holding it hostage if you will.
2. We are tired of hearing how very bad and lazy teachers can;t be fired. No, you're not all lazy, but you know many are. If you are good and motivated at your educator job, you don't need the union protecting your job. It works fine for the other 99% of us out there. Or I should say, it has too.
3. We are tired of the whinning about how tough your job is.
4. We are tired of how underpaid you are. Again, the demand for these jobs proves this is false.
Show us a nice finished product, (our kids) and break your union and I'll quit griping too.
I choose not to accept the pleasant invitation to engage in confrontational debate with you or the other members of your "we" because, as previously stated, it is my opinion, based on your comments, that you argue from a position of ignorance - that means because you are not a teacher, you have, at best, second-hand information of what teachers do and don't do. I wish you an excellent day.
No problem, Raising3boys. I think I'm a little on edge here. I'm really shocked at the posts. I just can't image anyone attacking someone's profession for no good reason.
Great indirect rebuttal. Typical. To afraid to address me directly, so you talk around me. I'm here, lets debate. I don' bite, promise! What do you disagree with in my post? At least the other teacher here debates on topic. I might not agree, but he argues his points of view well. Generalizing and finger pointing proves nothing.
The summary of my position is based on the following. Very simply to follow.
1. We are tired of the Teacher's union controlling our failing education system. Holding it hostage if you will.
-Again, not all states are union states, the majority are (guessing about %66 or a tad more when I looked at the 'teacher union mapping' online'). Its interesting you point out generalizations because you generalize that all states are union, when in FACT they are not.
2. We are tired of hearing how very bad and lazy teachers can;t be fired. No, you're not all lazy, but you know many are. If you are good and motivated at your educator job, you don't need the union protecting your job. It works fine for the other 99% of us out there. Or I should say, it has too.
-Bad, lazy, and tenured teachers can and do get fired, although it is not easy. Here are a few examples I encountered during my 8 years as a teacher;
-20 year plus veteran teacher called off sick to go on a golf outing. He got caught and lost his job and his teachers pension
-Its against state in law in my state to smoke on school campus. Teacher got caught twice having a marlboro in the parking lot. First time a written offense, 2nd time they got the boot. 10 plus year veteran, stripped of job and pension
-Another veteran teacher came in late by 10-15 minutes. First time a written warning, 2nd probation, 3rd she got canned.
Unions can't and won't go to bat for teachers that get caught up in these kind of actions, which they shouldn't. Unions are there to protect teachers against working for years, doing an excellent job, then a boss' kid/nephew/friend wants a job the teacher gets bumped for no other reason than nepotism. Know what I mean?
3. We are tired of the whinning about how tough your job is.
-That's quite a generalization! Maybe I am just positive, but whinning isn't common place where I work because the teachers I work really seem to love their jobs. Plus, seems like everyone whines about their jobs from time to time. Its ok to vent as long as it doesn't overtake your outlook in your profession.
4. We are tired of how underpaid you are. Again, the demand for these jobs proves this is false.
-Your tired of how underpaid we are?!?!?! Well thanks, but I am just fine with my salary. Anyone with an ounce of intellect can figure out long before they get into education that its not a 'get rich quick' kinda job!
Show us a nice finished product, (our kids) and break your union and I'll quit griping too.
-Well, good teachers try and try hard, but we cannot ensure that every students becomes %100 successful in school or after.
-In union states the unions will not be broken, so I guess your going to have to continue whinning!
However, I must say, if our union was taken away I would have zero problem with it. I have an open door policy for anyone to walk in. Good teachers have nothing to hide.
I hope my rebuttal was easy to follow and wasn't to 'general'.
[quote=raising3boys;5851751]
People STILL believe ANYONE CAN TEACH!
It is just very sad to see some of the comments on this thread. Hopefully, in the future PARENTS, Teachers, and Students can be a team. I stress that at the beginning of the year with everyone in my class.
I have a feeling that a lot of the comments that are being made are from people that do not even have children in an educational setting.
QUOTE]
This is a significant point - effective education requires all members of the process work as a team - parents, teachers, students, and even members of the community, as we all have an important stake in an educated citzenery. Yet, like you, I read comments here and do not see the cooperative spirit that is absolutely necessary to provide an education to all students.
yes, that is true. But it is impossible for a student to see all of the additional work and planning that goes into teaching. Although some teaching may seem effortless, it hardly ever is. Being a teacher and being a student are two different experiences and they cannot be compared.
Lets say you are a math teacher, you have five 11th grade classes a day, are you teaching something different to each class everyday?
Rarely do teachers get all the 'same' classes throughout the day. If they do, lucky for them! Usually, teachers get 3-4 preps. So you may have the same class once or twice in a given day, but every class is different given the dynamic of the students. So you may have the same general lesson plan if you have the same class in a day, but certianly you don't always follow it...there are just so many variables.
In my own situation in years past I had a few of the same classes per day, but each class was so different, topics that came up during lecture were different from class to class. Basically if you sat in both classes you would have thought they were completely different courses with similiar subject matter.
I realize the above comment was made to Sam82, however...
You might be teaching MATH each period, but I highly DOUBT each period is the same! You do not have the same set of students in each period. In order to reach ALL students, a teacher can NOT possibly teach the same way or do the SAME thing.
It is just very sad to see some of the comments on this thread. Hopefully, in the future PARENTS, Teachers, and Students can be a team. I stress that at the beginning of the year with everyone in my class.
I have a feeling that a lot of the comments that are being made are from people that do not even have children in an educational setting.
QUOTE]
This is a significant point - effective education requires all members of the process work as a team - parents, teachers, students, and even members of the community, as we all have an important stake in an educated citzenery. Yet, like you, I read comments here and do not see the cooperative spirit that is absolutely necessary to provide an education to all students.
You're correct, I no longer have children in school. They both went to college, one is an RN and the other owns his own company...But I do have three grand children in school and we are very active in their schooling. More my wife then me.
"Rarely do teachers get all the 'same' classes throughout the day. If they do, lucky for them! Usually, teachers get 3-4 preps. So you may have the same class once or twice in a given day, but every class is different given the dynamic of the students. So you may have the same general lesson plan if you have the same class in a day, but certianly you don't always follow it...there are just so many variables."
Interesting. I get 1 prep a day. Did you mean 3-4 a week or a day? I teach 18 individual classesl, either once or twice a week. I haven't counted yet, but I believe that I have 350-370 students. I teach 5 periods a day and tutor twice a day. That means 7 lesson plans a day. Dealing with so many personalities can be very hard. Yes, some classes are much easier to teach than others.
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