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Well, I hardly meant to argue with you. My point (and the point of the person I was paraphrasing, I think) is that such programming should not be limited to the TAG students. I don't know if you've read all the posts, but there have been a number waxing rhapsodic over the TAG programs they and /or their kids have been in, involving small group, hands on, individual interests, etc. That is perhaps the ideal for all students, not just the actual 2% who are genuinely gifted.
I didn't feel disagreed with, per se.
But there was a jumping off point, so I took it, seeking to illustrate a couple points.
Every child would benefit from having curriculum built/adjusted to the individual. You and I are in total agreement on this.
Conversely, few students would be as well served with the severe reduction in explanation and repetition with which most (though hardly all) gifted students thrive.
Every child would benefit from having curriculum built/adjusted to the individual. You and I are in total agreement on this.
Conversely, few students would be as well served with the severe reduction in explanation and repetition with which most (though hardly all) gifted students thrive.
BINGO! This is the thing that would make my middle son crazy. You would teach him a concept, let him practice, he was ready for the next thing. But the other kids needed more explanation, more practice, etc.....When parents push kids who aren't gifted into the class they usually take them out. The biggest complaint is that the teachers "don't teach".
BINGO! This is the thing that would make my middle son crazy. You would teach him a concept, let him practice, he was ready for the next thing. But the other kids needed more explanation, more practice, etc.....When parents push kids who aren't gifted into the class they usually take them out. The biggest complaint is that the teachers "don't teach".
LOL!!! The teachers in most gifted programs DO teach. They just teach to kids that are on a different level. Students that can take the information they are given and run with it. Sure every now and then a student in a gifted program will find the information given in class okay but not fully comprehend it. In this case 1 session in tutorials (provided for free before and after school) usually is enough to get the new concept understood.
LOL!!! The teachers in most gifted programs DO teach. They just teach to kids that are on a different level. Students that can take the information they are given and run with it. Sure every now and then a student in a gifted program will find the information given in class okay but not fully comprehend it. In this case 1 session in tutorials (provided for free before and after school) usually is enough to get the new concept understood.
I understand this. What I am saying is that it is the parents who push their unqualified kids into the gifted program who complain that the teachers don't teach. My youngest is the third child to go through the program and I have seen this happen many many times.
Here's the story:
Johnny is usually a bright, hard working student who gets all good grades in his regular class. The parents push for testing and Johnny is not identified as gifted. The parents think that since Johnny is getting all A's he MUST be gifted and push to have him added to the class. Since we are in a charter school they can put Johnny in the gifted class. if there is a spot the administration agrees to put him in.
By October Johnny is in tears because he is frustrated. Johnny is also in tears because he does hours of homework every night. Of course the gifted students spend around half an hour on the homework but it takes Johnny much longer to understand what he is supposed to do.
Of course this is all the fault of the teacher (need eye rolling emoticon here) because she "doesn't teach". Of course Johnny's mother is the only one complaining because the rest of the kids are fine with the amount of repetition in the classroom.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my original post.
I understand this. What I am saying is that it is the parents who push their unqualified kids into the gifted program who complain that the teachers don't teach. My youngest is the third child to go through the program and I have seen this happen many many times.
Here's the story:
Johnny is usually a bright, hard working student who gets all good grades in his regular class. The parents push for testing and Johnny is not identified as gifted. The parents think that since Johnny is getting all A's he MUST be gifted and push to have him added to the class. Since we are in a charter school they can put Johnny in the gifted class. if there is a spot the administration agrees to put him in.
By October Johnny is in tears because he is frustrated. Johnny is also in tears because he does hours of homework every night. Of course the gifted students spend around half an hour on the homework but it takes Johnny much longer to understand what he is supposed to do.
Of course this is all the fault of the teacher (need eye rolling emoticon here) because she "doesn't teach". Of course Johnny's mother is the only one complaining because the rest of the kids are fine with the amount of repetition in the classroom.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my original post.
You were clear. I guess I wasn't though. Me bad.
I've seen this too. Except in our schools to get into the G/T program they MUST test to get in and keep their grades up. The parents can't do too much of their childs work as a lot of it is done in class. Nor can the parents keep pestering the schools to let them in - it will NOT happen not even if there is an exceptional older sibling in the program or not (if that had been the case I would have tried it ).
Since middle school has hit thru the last 2 1/2 years there have been a few kids that were doing "okay" thru the G/T elem program but still had more homework than others. My kid was the one w/ a few minutes just to finish something she may not have in class or during their free time. But middle school for these others has REALLY seperated the TRUE gifted that are REALLY there to learn from those that did qualify and were okay and might have been able to pull it off but w/o trying they can't. Those kids will not be moving onto the IB program for high school. Not only that but those that really let their personal affairs get in the way of their education (middle school is such a joy ) don't even have the freedom to pick which high school they want to attend. My future IB kid can pick any high school she wants if she did not want to do IB.
So there is some good news for you to come. If these kids make it to middle school w/ their parents pushing them along it will be H E L L on ALL OF THEM! They have a long road ahead of them. While they are struggling w/ just the normal issues of a middle school kid AND the issues of school...................... your going to have a MUCH BETTER situation and will be MUCH happier.
I've seen this too. Except in our schools to get into the G/T program they MUST test to get in and keep their grades up. The parents can't do too much of their childs work as a lot of it is done in class. Nor can the parents keep pestering the schools to let them in - it will NOT happen not even if there is an exceptional older sibling in the program or not (if that had been the case I would have tried it
My kids are in a charter school. Every student who is classified by the county as gifted is in a gifted class. If those classes are not filled to capacity they take kids who have been identified as high achievers and fill the class with those students. Those seats are filled by teacher recommendation. Most of the kids who fill those seats year after year are recommended by their teacher and do fine in the class.
There are always a few (1 or 2 a year-but I have had 3 kids in the school) who absolutely insist that their child be in this class and they almost always do poorly and wind up going to a regular class (or changing to their home school) and then whining about the teacher.
The public schools have separate gifted and high achiever classes. The students must test gifted to be in the gifted classes. I think that method of classification works better, but I don't like the actual gifted program in my local public school ("more is better").
Quote:
Originally Posted by momof2dfw
So there is some good news for you to come. If these kids make it to middle school w/ their parents pushing them along it will be H E L L on ALL OF THEM! They have a long road ahead of them. While they are struggling w/ just the normal issues of a middle school kid AND the issues of school...................... your going to have a MUCH BETTER situation and will be MUCH happier.
We have the older boys in a private school with honors but no gifted programs. There is the same issue with parents overriding teacher recommendation in middle school but the kids wind up failing their honors classes. It is very hard on the kids when that happens because middle schoolers are so emotional to begin with.
You all are fortunate to have these academically gifted classes. In my state, we use the term "intellectually gifted" so as long as a child has a high enough IQ, they come into my enrichment pullout program. I would love to teach an academically challenging class. But right now, I have students in reading intervention and are in gifted b/c their IQ score is high. It can be very frustrating for two reasons:
1. I can't teach the state objectives. I must go through our gifted outcomes which do not accelerate students.
2. I have a class of mixed ability students with high IQ's. Most of them are really good at logic, etc. but when it comes to research, writing, etc. There is a huge variance. I would say that about 30% of my students are not even on honor roll.
Both of these things highly frustrate me, so much so that I am probably going to leave gifted ed after this year because I don't agree with the limitations on our program.
Since middle school has hit thru the last 2 1/2 years there have been a few kids that were doing "okay" thru the G/T elem program but still had more homework than others. My kid was the one w/ a few minutes just to finish something she may not have in class or during their free time. But middle school for these others has REALLY seperated the TRUE gifted that are REALLY there to learn from those that did qualify and were okay and might have been able to pull it off but w/o trying they can't. Those kids will not be moving onto the IB program for high school. Not only that but those that really let their personal affairs get in the way of their education (middle school is such a joy ) don't even have the freedom to pick which high school they want to attend. My future IB kid can pick any high school she wants if she did not want to do IB.
Wow, things have really changed since I was in elementary school.
Way back then, GT was only for elementary school students, and they did not have their own classroom. They attended a 'normal' classroom with all of the 'normal' kids and then on Fridays, for half the day, they took off to do what ever it was that they did (usually something extra-curicular, not necessarily academic). The few students who were at a higher level in math or english also remained in the classroom. Sometimes a teachers aid came in to help them out, but usually the class teacher taught them if a TA was not assigned/available. The kids who were really smart just advanced a grade.
There was not a GT or AP or honors in jr. high (middle school to some of you). It was sort of like college in that students took the courses at a level that best suited their ability, but for all practical purposes a 7th and 8th grader where still just 7th and 8th graders.
The above is roughly how it was at my kids' ele school. In Middle School, they did re-institute TAG sometime while one of my kids was there (you can see how important it was to me, LOL), and it too was run as above. In addition, in MS the teachers simply advanced kids a grade level in the subjects they were "gifted" in, and called it TAG programming. They also did this for "normal" kids, so there wasn't much difference, really, if your kid had some special ability. They would also send kids to the local high school for courses if the kid was ready for them and the middle school didn't offer them. By High School, kids simply took courses for which they had the pre-reqs, and the school offered AP and CU-Succeed, which was some program with the U of Colorado where the students got actual (instead of potential) credit at the U of Colorado if they passed the course with a certain grade. Some kids took courses at the U of CO or the Community College, getting both college and HS credit.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-01-2009 at 11:29 AM..
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Nor can the parents keep pestering the schools to let them in - it will NOT happen not even if there is an exceptional older sibling in the program or not (if that had been the case I would have tried it 
) don't even have the freedom to pick which high school they want to attend. My future IB kid can pick any high school she wants if she did not want to do IB. 