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In our school district, CPR training is standard for all teachers. My daughter had to get re-certified within the first month of starting to work as a teacher.
ALL TEACHERS SHOULD KNOW CPR AND HEIMLICH MANEUVER. ABSOLUTELY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3
"""Larson prescribed the EpiPen, an injectable dose of epinephrine, for an allergic emergency""", records show. Mercedes suffered both food allergies and asthma."
Yes, FOOD ALLERGIES as well.
She was dropped off in the morning. No telling what she had for breakfast or what she was exposed to in the car she was riding in.
What's the difference in an asthma attack and a food allergy attack? How did the health clerk and teachers even know for sure it was an allergy attack vs. an allergic reaction? Some how they made the "medical" determination that it was asthma, not allergy, and went with the course of treatment for asthma, NOT allergy.
The child had a medical condition of some sort, of which the school was notified, two different medications were on hand to be administered ICE, and when the child had an attack, they chose one method, after making an assumption of which ailment the girl was suffering from, ignored the other, and didn't even perform basic CPR which lifeguards, daycare providers, and others are required to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup
Agreed 911 was called ASAP ad help was on the way. The inhaler was used as prescribed *for asthma*. I can't see the negligence here. Also someone else pointed out that school didn't start till 8:50 AM and immediately after being dropped off at 8:15 AM she was having problems. Maybe some negligence on the folks who dropped her off?
Not necessarily. My son's school starts at 8:45 and drop off begins at 8:15. As a matter of fact, last year the teacher sent a note home asking that children be dropped off no later than 8:30 so that they can get to their desks around the same time as the bussed kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup
What are the parents going to do with $15,000,000 and no kid? This is one of those things where life isn't fair and chit happens.
Yeah, I don't think so. Schools are not adequately dealing with children with medical problems. And the only way to get them to pay attention is to make a huge lawsuit like this.
I'd light 15 million on fire before giving up my child.
It's none of your business what they are going to do with the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02
If any of my kids were ever to have asthma or severe allergic reactions I make then carry their life saving medications. It just takes too much time to go to the nurses office and have them search for their medicines. If the school made an issue about it then I would fight them legally.
Me too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee
if you are going to be working around children, than I would think you'd want to learn CPR. I think it should mandatory that a certain number of teachers (all would be nice, but even a couple would be better than none) have training in this and the Heimlich maneuver. it's too risky not to knw it when you're dealing w/ kids running around and possibly injuring themselves, or when you have kids w/ health issues. the fact that this school apparently didn't have anyone who knew CPR scares me.
Well it didn't say no one knew CPR just that no one actually performed it. But I agree, CPR and Heimlich are basics they all should know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anadyr21
Well, if we're going to think of it that way, then EVERY PARENT would have to be required to learn CPR. I mean, all parents work with kids, right.
Honestly, the idea that all, or a majority of teachers HAVE to learn CPR is silly. Not everyone is cut out to be a "hero". That's not what they signed up for. However, nurses, or the health clerk in this case, are trained to do this. I can't specifically blame the teachers who did what they knew to do. I don't expect my child's teacher to perform CPR. I expect them to call 911, and get him to the nurses station. I expect the NURSE to know CPR. Other than having CPR training, do we actually know what this health clerk's role is?
Half the time, there is NO nurse. And if there is no nurse, it is not silly to require all teachers to know CPR. Back in the day when there was a nurse in every school the whole time kids were in school, yes I see there was little need for teachers to know CPR. But if there is no nurse, some BLS needs to be taught to SOMEONE who will be there.
By the way, I did learn CPR & the Heimlich maneuver because I have kids. It's a good thing for parents and all people in general to know, can SAVE A LIFE, takes an hour to learn, and is offered free in most communities.
The girl also suffered from alergic reactions, so it is possible that she was have a reaction to something, and it may not have just been an asthma attack.
Reps to you, this is what I was saying all along while reading the posts of people arguing that the epi pen was for an allergy attack not an asthma attack.
The fact that these teachers are not "medically trained" is no defense, IMO, since they obviously made an uninformed medical decision about which attack the child was having, and followed a treatment plan for that particular attack, and now there is a beautiful little girl that is DEAD.
Let's all remember what we are talking about here, a DEAD child.
And if you think it can't happen at your child's school, you are probably wrong.
And it is not a public/private school issue.
In my son's preschool class, I remembered two teachers exchanging worried glances because they suspected a girl with allergies may have eaten a peanut butter cup off the neighbors plate.
My cousin works in a private school, where she described an absolutely frightening story of a child with a peanut allergy was accidentally given some sort of cookie that had peanuts, the teachers couldn't get to the epi pen, etc. I don't remember the whole story but the parents ended up in the hospital all night with the kid and it sounded like complete incompetence on the teacher's part, which my cousin, a teacher there, agreed with wholeheartedly.
The fact of the matter is, there is an increasing amount of kids with all sorts of medical problems, and with budget shortfalls, nurses are being taken out of schools and the school districts are not doing enough to fill the void. A nurse signs off on the medical plans and then what happens to them? Do they get forwarded to the teachers? I don't know. IMO, there should be a meeting with the teacher and nurse about how to handle the situation. Then the teachers should be given a test on what to do if the situation arose, role play it out. Then give the teachers/administrators/"health CLERK" a little report card on how they handled the situation. YOU FAILED--KID DIED should result in another training session.
I feel so badly for the parents...it is tragic to loose a child...tragic, but...
this could have happened any where...and while perhaps she didn't get the immediate medical attention she should have...where was she, was she outside on the track? Didn't anyone have any cell phones with them...I mean, what was the exact situation here...even if a nurse were on staff, could she have made it to the child on time?
The other thing is, again, while tragic...very tragic, there are children every year who loose their lives on the track, on the football field, in soccor, in pool accidents....
but a law suit only does one thing, those parents are suing everyone in the community, b/c when you sue the school, you sue every single tax payer....
another point, suing is not going to bring their daughter back...could things have been done differently? Probably, but people go into shock when things like this happen...and also, don't you think that everyone there, will never forget it, will blame themselves and wonder for the rest of their lives if they couldn't have done things differently. Some probably much more then others?
I would like to point out that CPR is only to be done after the pt. is no longer breathing and/or has no pulse.
yes, and another point I'd like to point out...so many people today FEAR helping someone b/c of getting sued...your damed if you do, and damed if you don't.
Loosing a child is an awful thing, but for the parents to sue, is simply greed...it's not going to bring their little girl back, or make them feel better about loosing her.
People today and just plain sue happy, and accidents do happen and are unavoidable.
This brings up an excellent point. Why didn't the health care worker have a cell phone or radio on her. The should probably be carrying at least a radio to be in immediate contact with the office during an emergency, either for them to call 911 or be pulling the emergency plan and medications out of wherever they are stored, so that when she got into the building with the child everything was ready to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
but a law suit only does one thing, those parents are suing everyone in the community, b/c when you sue the school, you sue every single tax payer....
This is true, but it seems that before the lawsuit, the school obviously didn't adequately plan for an emergency, and the likelihood is that after a multi-million dollar lawsuit, they probably WILL have a plan.
But perhaps the death of the child alone will wake them up and get them to take action.
ALL TEACHERS SHOULD KNOW CPR AND HEIMLICH MANEUVER. ABSOLUTELY.
Yes, FOOD ALLERGIES as well.
She was dropped off in the morning. No telling what she had for breakfast or what she was exposed to in the car she was riding in.
What's the difference in an asthma attack and a food allergy attack? How did the health clerk and teachers even know for sure it was an allergy attack vs. an allergic reaction? Some how they made the "medical" determination that it was asthma, not allergy, and went with the course of treatment for asthma, NOT allergy.
The child had a medical condition of some sort, of which the school was notified, two different medications were on hand to be administered ICE, and when the child had an attack, they chose one method, after making an assumption of which ailment the girl was suffering from, ignored the other, and didn't even perform basic CPR which lifeguards, daycare providers, and others are required to know.
Not necessarily. My son's school starts at 8:45 and drop off begins at 8:15. As a matter of fact, last year the teacher sent a note home asking that children be dropped off no later than 8:30 so that they can get to their desks around the same time as the bussed kids.
Yeah, I don't think so. Schools are not adequately dealing with children with medical problems. And the only way to get them to pay attention is to make a huge lawsuit like this.
I'd light 15 million on fire before giving up my child.
It's none of your business what they are going to do with the money.
Me too.
Well it didn't say no one knew CPR just that no one actually performed it. But I agree, CPR and Heimlich are basics they all should know.
Half the time, there is NO nurse. And if there is no nurse, it is not silly to require all teachers to know CPR. Back in the day when there was a nurse in every school the whole time kids were in school, yes I see there was little need for teachers to know CPR. But if there is no nurse, some BLS needs to be taught to SOMEONE who will be there.
By the way, I did learn CPR & the Heimlich maneuver because I have kids. It's a good thing for parents and all people in general to know, can SAVE A LIFE, takes an hour to learn, and is offered free in most communities.
"She was dropped off in the morning. No telling what she had for breakfast or what she was exposed to in the car she was riding in."
I guess that would fall on the parents then..... what do you think???
A care plan prepared by school nurse Heidi Christensen notes Mercedes “has Benadryl, an EpiPen and an inhaler in the health room,” and lists Larson’s name and phone number. Larson’s orders don’t stipulate the EpiPen must be used in an asthma attack, but the family’s attorney, Thaddeus Martin, believes it would have saved her life. He describes it as “adrenaline to be used in emergency situations when Mercedes had breathing difficulty.”
My point here is that the written asthma management plan was not clear - though it was awfully kind of the doctor's lawyer to clear it up after the fact. It appears that the plan the the doctor signed didn't give any clarification about when to use the EpiPen vs. when to use the albuterol.
Asthma exacerbations and food allergic reactions (anaphylaxis) don't present themselves the same way. If the girl came to the office complaining of throat swelling, lip itching or swelling or difficulty swallowing or was pale, faint dizzy... an anaphylactic reaction would be suspected and the EpiPen should have been used.
If however she came in complaining of a tight chest, wheezing or coughing, the albuterol should have been used. She was clearly able to communicate when she first sought help.
I suspect that the clinic worker or office worker or whatever non-nurse person who was supposed to make these medical decisions was woefully undertrained and did what she initially thought was best, never pulled the management plan and panicked along with everyone else.
Doctors and parents need to make sure that school personnel have not only clear written guidelines, but the training and explanations necessary to make decisions.
Last edited by pinetreelover; 03-11-2009 at 10:14 AM..
Reason: clarity
"She was dropped off in the morning. No telling what she had for breakfast or what she was exposed to in the car she was riding in."
I guess that would fall on the parents then..... what do you think???
Don't you think her parents will not give her anything she was allergic to. I am sure her parents keep an allergen free home for their child.
The issue here is not where she got exposed but the lack of help she received.
This brings up an excellent point. Why didn't the health care worker have a cell phone or radio on her. The should probably be carrying at least a radio to be in immediate contact with the office during an emergency, either for them to call 911 or be pulling the emergency plan and medications out of wherever they are stored, so that when she got into the building with the child everything was ready to go.
It's been a few days since I read the article, but I don't believe the cell phone issue was even addressed. We don't know if anyone had a cell on them or not. (In this day and age, one would think that somebody had one.) In addition, schools usually have lots of phone lines. A lot of people are making a lot of assumptions on this thread. pinetreelover made a good point, one that I thought of when I first read the article. The lawyer says the school personnel should have used the epi-pen. The dr. didn't say that.
And to being "sure" the parents kept an allergen-free home, that's probably true as far as it goes. OTOH, you'd b e surprised how many kids are allergic to dogs, but the family has a dog, etc. (I work in a pediatrician's office.) Also, kids are kids, and kids that age often rebel against restrictions. It's possible she did eat something she shouldn't have. Again, there's a lot we don't know.
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