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Old 05-10-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Key Largo, FL
41 posts, read 171,601 times
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A study might show something about the student population in general, but ultimately, no one knows a child like his parents and the parents should make the decision based on what they believe is best for their child.

Here is an example: My friend had a son born in August. He was small for his age and a little immature. It was suggested that he be retained in first grade. She did this and he was miserable, so she moved him back up with his peers. He graduated high school second in his class and did great in college. My son was born in August, and he, too was small for his age and a little immature. I decided to send him to Pre-K twice. He did great in school and graduated with a Masters degree and works in finance.

My point is this: Everyone can have an opinion and getting opinions is important, but ultimately, no one knows your child like you do and you need to go with that.
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Old 05-10-2009, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,438,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spagettio View Post
A study might show something about the student population in general, but ultimately, no one knows a child like his parents and the parents should make the decision based on what they believe is best for their child.

Here is an example: My friend had a son born in August. He was small for his age and a little immature. It was suggested that he be retained in first grade. She did this and he was miserable, so she moved him back up with his peers. He graduated high school second in his class and did great in college. My son was born in August, and he, too was small for his age and a little immature. I decided to send him to Pre-K twice. He did great in school and graduated with a Masters degree and works in finance.

My point is this: Everyone can have an opinion and getting opinions is important, but ultimately, no one knows your child like you do and you need to go with that.
As I've said, multiple times, immaturity is one reason you would retain. I'm talking about academic retention not retention due to immaturity. And the fact the school told your friend to retain her son and she did and it wasn't what was good for him is what I am talking about. Unfortunately, for most kids, the issues are not seen right away so there's not putting them back up with their peers.
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
2,568 posts, read 6,736,563 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by pll View Post
All parent's out there- please learn from my mistake. Choose one more year of preschool if given the choice.
You have post after post saying how each child is different and here you tell everyone to hold their kids back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
A student with a June birthday used to be in the middle of her class; that student is now at the youngest end. So she's already competing against kids who've had the advantage of being more mature phsyically, emotionally and intellectually beginning in kindergarten and you are right that it does and will continue to affect her self esteem in an enormous way. I'm with you....a child can probably make friends anywhere but she is not necessarily going to gain academic self confidence--which is crucial--unless the playing field is leveled for her.
So, because a kid is "competing" with kids a few months older, it is better to hold him/her back so he/she competes with kids a few months younger. I am a foreigner that was raised in a culture where if your kids has to be held back it is a bad thing. It means your kid is not as smart as other kids. It is not done to help the kid "succeed". I just can't wrap my mid around this concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Did you look at the drop out rates with retentions? That's scary.
When you look at kids that were retained your are looking at a subset of all the students. This subset will include the kids that would have dropped out regardless of retention.
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:51 PM
pll pll started this thread
 
1,112 posts, read 2,478,819 times
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Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
You have post after post saying how each child is different and here you tell everyone to hold their kids back.

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to kindergarten enrollment. I have a child was born Sept. 27 the cut off date for kindergarten in my state is Sept. 1. I know I could have pushed to enroll her into school early and she may have done fine. I did research and found that given a choice there are more advantages to being an older student then younger...mainly maturity. I am glad she had the opportunity to be an older student especially in high school.

So, because a kid is "competing" with kids a few months older, it is better to hold him/her back so he/she competes with kids a few months younger. I am a foreigner that was raised in a culture where if your kids has to be held back it is a bad thing. It means your kid is not as smart as other kids. It is not done to help the kid "succeed". I just can't wrap my mid around this concept.

It is only bad when the schools force all the children to be school ready at the same time. They have them take a 'kindergarten readiness test' to show if they know the basics. It doesn't reflect the maturity levels though. Not only do these children struggle and try to keep up with the peers in elementary school but it carries over into high school and then we have 10th graders that are reading at lower levels.
Some schools offer pre-k classes for children that are in between which would have been perfect for my youngest who wasn't quite ready for kindergarten but would have been bored in preschool. Unfortuntely, our school didn't offer pk class.


When you look at kids that were retained your are looking at a subset of all the students. This subset will include the kids that would have dropped out regardless of retention.
Agreed.
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,438,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post


When you look at kids that were retained your are looking at a subset of all the students. This subset will include the kids that would have dropped out regardless of retention.
Actually, researchers compared kids who were recommended for retention and not retained to those who were. Drop out rates go up with each retention.
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Old 05-11-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,636 posts, read 26,559,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
So, because a kid is "competing" with kids a few months older, it is better to hold him/her back so he/she competes with kids a few months younger.
When a class is composed of four, five and six year olds, yes, 6 months maturity makes a HUGE difference. Months can make the difference between something as supposedly incidental as a child possessing the motor skills to hold a pair of scissors and cut, to pay attention to groups of words on a worksheet, etc. And yes, unfortunately, they ARE competing....they're all placed somewhere on that statistical bell-shaped curve.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:46 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,145,177 times
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It would depend on the student IMO. If a child has difficulty grasping concepts (particularly in the lower grades K - 5) and was placed into Kindergarten early (for example turned 5 at or near the "cut off " age) then I'd say yes. It may cause heartburn socially, but in the long run, it will pay off. I say that from personal experience.

From my observation, children who start preschool are basically performing what children of yesterday did in Kindergarten. Kindergarteners are doing more toward what children of the past did toward the end of first grade.

Some kids are ready for these concepts, but many are not, and if they aren't ready to learn then oftentimes frustration turns them off to learning IMO.

I only speak for myself (even 'tho I often hear it from other parents) when I say that I believe that testing score mania will do more damage than good. It's a whole different ballgame in early education today IMHO, and kids may need to be retained in order to keep up with others who are able to grasp concepts more readily.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:47 PM
pll pll started this thread
 
1,112 posts, read 2,478,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
It would depend on the student IMO. If a child has difficulty grasping concepts (particularly in the lower grades K - 5) and was placed into Kindergarten early (for example turned 5 at or near the "cut off " age) then I'd say yes. It may cause heartburn socially, but in the long run, it will pay off. I say that from personal experience.

From my observation, children who start preschool are basically performing what children of yesterday did in Kindergarten. Kindergarteners are doing more toward what children of the past did toward the end of first grade.

Some kids are ready for these concepts, but many are not, and if they aren't ready to learn then oftentimes frustration turns them off to learning IMO.

I only speak for myself (even 'tho I often hear it from other parents) when I say that I believe that testing score mania will do more damage than good. It's a whole different ballgame in early education today IMHO, and kids may need to be retained in order to keep up with others who are able to grasp concepts more readily.
I agree with you completely. I saw a big difference from kindergarten expectations for my youngest compared to my oldest. There is a 10 year age difference between the two children. I was warned by my youngest childs preschool teacher that the expectatations for kindergarteners is much higher now. She recommended one more year of preschool formy daughter and the whole class!
Now 4 years later my daughter struggles in Math and is in the IEP program as are 6 other classmates for reading, math or both. Something has changed in the 20 years I have been parenting and had my kids in the school system. It's a more competive world I guess.
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:46 AM
pll pll started this thread
 
1,112 posts, read 2,478,819 times
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Regarding the social aspect of grade retention, I think it would be more successful and less tramatizing on the child if he changed schools all the way through high school. Parents need to understand that the retained child may feel embarrased and peers don't forget. I think that was why my experience was positive as a retained 3rd grader. I moved to a different town and got a new start.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:33 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,145,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pll View Post
Regarding the social aspect of grade retention, I think it would be more successful and less tramatizing on the child if he changed schools all the way through high school. Parents need to understand that the retained child may feel embarrased and peers don't forget. I think that was why my experience was positive as a retained 3rd grader. I moved to a different town and got a new start.

That's true, but from a practical aspect, I'm not sure that many can change schools (particularly from rural areas) -especially if they lack the resources to up and move.

I guess ultimately it comes down to doing what's best for the child on an individual basis. I think early retainment is key. Peers may never forget, but still, does that justify passing a child through grades when they don't know what they're doing? In my case, although I really do feel bad that my son still wants to be in the grade he started out in, I have to weigh the fact that he is that much more prepared for what lies ahead because he stayed back in 2nd grade. His self-confidence has improved vastly. He missed far too much due to health reasons in the first and second grade, and had we not retained him, he would still be catching up on too many things. The bar is set high now, so time is of the essence with regard to solidifying concepts IMHO.
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