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AP status doesn't guarantee a great educational experience, but in no way indicates a subpar educational experience, either. I don't think there is anything wrong with a student taking advantage of other educational offerings, but if a student is attending a school and wants to take an AP class then I think he or she should have the opportunity to give it a shot. It's overly simplistic to make the argument that some public schools provide a poor education, and some individual AP classes aren't high quality, so therefore I'm going to lump them all in together and call them all failures. (same would be true to say all homeschooling doesn't work just because it doesn't work in some cases) You say you only took one AP course; one course in one school with one teacher isn't enough information to bash an entire system.
Tenure is a complicated thing. It's about much more than just the quality of teaching. A high school teacher is equally invested (or is just as likely to be as invested) in the quality of his or her teaching as is a college professor. The college professor is overall more likely to know more about the subject at hand (since many high school teachers don't have PhDs in their subjects), but if deep in-depth knowledge of a specific topic is what you're looking for out of a teacher then that would also seem to negate the argument for homeschooling, too, as no one person has the ability to have devoted years of study to each subject taught.
The problem is that we teach theories in school….”1 million years ago, this is what happened.” As if it is certainty. However, by teaching that this is the conclusions we have been able to come forth with so far, you are leaving a mind open to other possibilities, which could later translate to more advances.
I'm getting the impression that you personally have had a bad experience with schools, or maybe the schools in your area have problems, but a quality teacher - whether at home or in a school - doesn't teach only theories. Yes, they teach the theories that have been developed and considered over years (sometimes centuries) of scholarship and thought by those who have dedicated their lives to thinking about the theory in question, but they also teach the tools to approach life, and learning, with the ability to ask questions, seek answers, and consider the possibilities. Good teaching can occur in a classroom setting, too; it may not happen in all classroom settings, and not all children thrive in all settings, but there are many, many students out there who are getting a high-quality education in public schools. These stereotypes that all public schools are out to brainwash kids into conformity (or other related stereotypes) are as irritating to those of us who know better as it presumably is for homeschooling parents when people say that all homeschooled kids are socially stunted and insular.
Good teaching can occur in a classroom setting, too; it may not happen in all classroom settings, and not all children thrive in all settings, but there are many, many students out there who are getting a high-quality education in public schools. These stereotypes that all public schools are out to brainwash kids into conformity (or other related stereotypes) are as irritating to those of us who know better as it presumably is for homeschooling parents when people say that all homeschooled kids are socially stunted and insular.
That's correct.
Tangenting somewhat: One of our local schools has been listed among the top 25 in the nation. Interestingly, it is also a "D" rated school. The reason for the discrepancy? There's an excellent magnet program located at that particular school, which otherwise is pretty lacking.
The kids who attend the XXXX program get a stellar education, at least in the magnet subjects. In their other classes, they take pot luck with the zoned kids. There are a lot of reasons for that "D" rating, and I will absolutely agree that it is not solely the fault of the teachers or the students or the families. There's enough blame for everybody there. But the point remains that there are essentially at least two educational experiences available, even under one roof. How many more, then, available under the hundred or so roofs in a moderately sized district?
I just wanted to point out one glaring distortion in the article - the author claims that homeschooling averages only $400 per student, it's much cheaper than private school. That, of course, fails to take into account the likely loss of one parent's salary (it does mention "financial sacrifice"). I don't necessarily have a problem with homeschooling (I think in some case for some kids it is the best option) but this article is pretty biased, and left me with a rather bad taste in my mouth, in part because of the paragraph blaming Columbine in part on "government school culture."
It is fairly cheap to home school one child, we do it for a bit more than that, but it's cheaper than public school costs to educate one child for a year, and much cheaper than private school.
Now we both work, but we have opposite schedules so one of us is always home. We don't loose income that way, nor do we have to pay for a baby sitter or day care, so it's a win-win for us.
I agree, I have read the article before, and it is a bit biased.
What do you expect from someone who writes something like this and truly believes it? DELUSIONAL.
"More itelligent than most and more educated than most and both my intelligence and my education tell me I'm not qualified to teach all subects in all grades. If I'm in the upper 3% of the population (raw IQ wise) and I have more education than 85% of the people out there and I'm not qualified, why are they?"
I would like to see the data in writing how this person knows they have more education than 85% of the people "out there." Even if it were so, formal education is not the only factor that makes one highly intelligent. In fact, I know lots of people who have Masters Degrees and not a lick of common sense. I felt it is OK to say I know lots of people and make generalized statements as this seems to be the vein of this thread.
Exactly!
In this thread it almost seems ok to belittle home schoolers based on personal bias.
I'm getting the impression that you personally have had a bad experience with schools, or maybe the schools in your area have problems, but a quality teacher - whether at home or in a school - doesn't teach only theories. Yes, they teach the theories that have been developed and considered over years (sometimes centuries) of scholarship and thought by those who have dedicated their lives to thinking about the theory in question, but they also teach the tools to approach life, and learning, with the ability to ask questions, seek answers, and consider the possibilities. Good teaching can occur in a classroom setting, too; it may not happen in all classroom settings, and not all children thrive in all settings, but there are many, many students out there who are getting a high-quality education in public schools. These stereotypes that all public schools are out to brainwash kids into conformity (or other related stereotypes) are as irritating to those of us who know better as it presumably is for homeschooling parents when people say that all homeschooled kids are socially stunted and insular.
Actually I had some great teachers. I could group my teachers into three groups, the ones that did a great job, teachers who are good people doing their best, although I felt were lacking, bad teachers who thought they were great.
For the first two, I was the model student. For my best teachers, I enjoyed the quality education. With the middle group, I would gently point out discrepancies and aid the teacher in either adding to their curricula or helping the struggling students. For the bad teachers, they did not write in enough time for debate, and I would debate them out of the classroom, not literally, but I would not give in until either the semester was over or they cut the act and started being civil with the fact that they were not all knowing. Sadly, there are too many teachers who are “all knowing.” That is proven with study upon study and loads of proof that our public schools are lacking. The fact that so many teachers deny this problem, try and say its not in every public school, refuse to up their curricula and try to make some change, it makes it painfully obvious that they fall into the last category, especially when they are so prejudiced…full of fear…of the homeschooler.
I guess if I worked in a career where the average middle class person could do better than myself and start a quickly moving trend, regardless of my schooling, I’d start to worry about job security and maybe even be angry that all my schooling (that I was probably still paying for) did not offer me more.
I think education is a very individual thing. I would think that homeschooling families would respect that to an even greater degree than would the average family off the street. Many teachers are good, many schools are good. I think options are a great thing, and certainly believe that public schools as a whole need to do a better job for all children. If you live in a community with limited school options and they don't work for your kid (or even if you live in a community with tons of options and they still don't work for your kid) I don't think there's anything wrong with homeschooling, but it does make me angry when people make sweeping statements about all public schools being this way or that. Most teachers readily acknowledge problems within the system. You don't go into teaching because you want to make boatloads of money; some can make a decent living, true, but most people become teachers because they really do care about kids, they value learning, and do want to inspire kids to actively engage themselves in learning and thinking about the world around them. In an ideal world a variety of schooling options will coexist peacefully. Why does it have to be as simplistic as "homeschooling is good and public schools (and their teachers) are bad"?
I'm sure there are parents out there homeschooling their kids who are "all knowing," too. There are good and there are bad teachers, and that can happen in the home as well as in the school. That doesn't mean that all homeschooling is bad. It might not be right for you and your family, but that doesn't mean that it's bad or an inferior choice for every family.
I think education is a very individual thing. I would think that homeschooling families would respect that to an even greater degree than would the average family off the street. Many teachers are good, many schools are good. I think options are a great thing, and certainly believe that public schools as a whole need to do a better job for all children. If you live in a community with limited school options and they don't work for your kid (or even if you live in a community with tons of options and they still don't work for your kid) I don't think there's anything wrong with homeschooling, but it does make me angry when people make sweeping statements about all public schools being this way or that. Most teachers readily acknowledge problems within the system. You don't go into teaching because you want to make boatloads of money; some can make a decent living, true, but most people become teachers because they really do care about kids, they value learning, and do want to inspire kids to actively engage themselves in learning and thinking about the world around them. In an ideal world a variety of schooling options will coexist peacefully. Why does it have to be as simplistic as "homeschooling is good and public schools (and their teachers) are bad"?
I'm sure there are parents out there homeschooling their kids who are "all knowing," too. There are good and there are bad teachers, and that can happen in the home as well as in the school. That doesn't mean that all homeschooling is bad. It might not be right for you and your family, but that doesn't mean that it's bad or an inferior choice for every family.
I think there are a couple of reasons (and I'll preface by saying that overall, that was a good post):
A lot of families who come to homeschooling initially do so because they're not happy with their public school experience. Either the education itself was lacking, or the circumstances were lacking (and I see this with a lot of ESE families who are leaving our school system in fairly significant numbers), or there were some truly horrorshow experiences not addressed satisfactorily. Often there's a combination of those-- and realistically, those families are not going to have good things to say about previous experience.
There are other families who are homeschooling because they're taking a preemptive approach: they don't want to have those experiences in the first place. Maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't, but they don't see the need to take the risk when there are acceptible alternatives.
And there are some homeschool families who do so, yes, to avoid interacting with certain groups of people. That's potentially offensive. I get it. I'm Pagan, so I'm onle of those skeery people. OTOH, the average American does this routinely when they buy a house in a heterogenous neighborhood, or choose private or parochial school, or arrange for their children to attend "the good public schools" (which is often a code phrase for an abundance of fair-skinned, upper-middle-class children with educated parents in the prescribed number and gender). So yeah, while on a certain level it's annoying to those being avoided, it's also just as well because we probably wouldn't socialize anyway. (And ftr, I live in a metropolitan area with a huge homeschool community, and those folks segregate themselves amongst homeschoolers, too. It's the secular world they're choosing to be apart from, not just school.)
Further, once a family chooses homeschooling, you get to hear everybody else's opinions about whether you're screwing your child up for life, whether they know you or not. It's not unreasonable to expect that there are those who would react badly to unsolicited criticism of an intimate family decision.
I don't have a good reason for why schooled families have to take the "homeschooling is bad and public schools (and their teachers) are wonderful" tack. Maybe you can enlighten me. I assume the reason so many schoolteachers get cranky when the subject comes up is that they either feel threatened or can't think outside the box. I'd prefer not to ascribe it to occupational hubris.
I'd also like to point out: I graduated from high school somewhere back in the Jurassic Period. At the time, homeschooling was something done mostly by people who lived on remote sheep stations in the Australian Outback. I went to (private) boarding school. And a lot of the attitudes described: the alleged air of superiority from those who'd left the public system, the snarky comments about elitist attitudes from the ones who had to/chose to stay, were ascribed to the public/private school debate.
The Education Wars have been going on for years. There are just more players now.
I
Last edited by Aconite; 07-16-2009 at 06:18 AM..
Reason: added last bit
I think it is funny that the homeschooling parents get offended when they are "belittled", but the public school teachers, who are doing there job well under crappy circumstances, are just suppose to lie down and take it! I am so tired of people thinking that they are better than everyone else, and saying public school is crap. I work hard! I work hard for my students! I work hard to rise up to the challenges and help my students do well! I work hard in spite of the fact that some parents, included in this thread, are arrogant and have no respect for the job that I do! You know you can say whatever you want about what needs to be improved in education in this country, but stop looking down on teachers! I have higher than a middle school education thank you very much, in fact Master's degree in science! Credentials people, lets see them, becuase I do not know where some people get there information. UGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!
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