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Not unfortunate that I can't diagnose, I'm not a doctor and didn't mean to imply I should be diagnosing but, rather, unfortunate that the concerns of teachers and their requests that this child be evaluated by someone qualified fall of deaf ears. There is, obviously, something wrong. Mom refuses have him tested to find out what it is though. So I guess I'm saying it's unfortunate that I can't refer him for testing. Mom's not going to do it. I understand she was told shortly after delivery but refused testing claiming he's normal.
Unfortunately, mom's is the only opinion that counts here. This is one area where teachers can't help if the parents won't. He can't be assigned a para without an IEP.
So what does this have to do with homeschooling??? Obviously the mother is going above and beyond to make sure her child is accepted as normal. She is the type of parent who would not homeschool because that is not "normal" and she could not bring herself to do that to her child.
Now, if the mother really cared and had pulled her child to homeschool, you can bet they are getting the one on one they need because being "normal" vs putting the child's education first is not happening.
At the risk of being a windbag, I'll try to be brief.
This post has struck a great chord with me, not because I was homeschooled (as I was not) but because my father was what many considered an "uneducated engineer." He possessed nothing but a high school degree (earned by the skin of his teeth) and a brief stint in the Navy circa 1951 - long enough to secure the deep sea diving/marine salvage and demolition training he needed to start a marine construction business which was successful from the time he began it, until literally a few months before he passed away in 1997.
You see, if you click on my profile, you will note two steel boats as my picture. I am not being facetious when I tell you that they were completely fabricated over the course of 30 years by my father alone (with the exception of the occasional help of my mother as well as the siblings and myself). The smaller tug was built in order to haul his barge and equipment up and down the coast doing marine jobs/diving that most "sane" people wouldn't touch. I digress...at any rate, when he was on a job on the coast of Maine, he began to prepare to build the houseboat (65 ton) on which he would eventually live at least for a short period prior to his death. His original blueprints - and I kid you not - were on the only available paper on board the tug at the time - toilet paper. Believe me, he was a constant source of entertainment for our family.
Nonetheless, when the scurge of "New Math" came around and tortured me, he stood me beside the hull of the then-dry-docked houseboat, handed me a piece of soapstone, and made me write my times tables on the side of it over, and over, and over because I had negligent knowledge of them. Long story short, I learned more geometry, measurement, algebra and basic math from him than I did any formally educated teacher I had at the time. My mother, having been born a bit before her time, attended teaching college as in the '50's when a woman had pretty much 3 career choices in life: 1. Marry and raise kids 2. Become a nurse or 3. Become a teacher. She was the one who provided me the most information by way of the arts, classical music, literature and writing.
So you see, IMHO, while I'm sure there are plently of parents out there that may not educate their children sufficiently enough to pass a test, I feel (and personally know many) who can more than sufficiently teach their children. I would certainly hate to see the freedom of choosing to teach one's own child relegated to a piece of paper stating that one is "qualified" to teach.
Before I run the risk of being labeled "old school" and behind the times, let me say that I realize technology demands higher skills now-a-days, but I know far too many people who can't pass a test, but certainly can build anything (and understand completely how to do so) with their hands -sans any kind of formal education degree. To me anyway, if we try to put too much emphasis on formality with regard to education, then I think we run the risk of missing great talent.
Last edited by cebdark; 07-23-2009 at 07:09 PM..
Reason: fixed sentence
Most Teachers seem to have degrees in "Education" which gives them knowledge of how to teach but not knowledge of the subjects they teach. That is the fatal flaw in our educational system. If they had degrees in English or history or mathematics they would be able to educate our youth.
Most Teachers seem to have degrees in "Education" which gives them knowledge of how to teach but not knowledge of the subjects they teach. That is the fatal flaw in our educational system. If they had degrees in English or history or mathematics they would be able to educate our youth.
Virginia Tech has a great teacher education program. It is a five year plus program with a Bachelors in content and the Masters is the education part of the program. That way you have a full legitimate degree in say Math that you can use for a position in the private sector if you want. The Education content is at the Master level and is more complete and detailed. Your point is very valid and if a community college transfer is involved depending on the college it can also impact.
Virginia Tech has a great teacher education program. It is a five year plus program with a Bachelors in content and the Masters is the education part of the program. That way you have a full legitimate degree in say Math that you can use for a position in the private sector if you want. The Education content is at the Master level and is more complete and detailed. Your point is very valid and if a community college transfer is involved depending on the college it can also impact.
I wasted 11 years in Public education and learned more in my first year in the Army than I had in that entire time. By 5th grade I knew more about Geography and History than my teachers. Degree's in Education are, for the most part, a waste.
Virginia Tech has a great teacher education program. It is a five year plus program with a Bachelors in content and the Masters is the education part of the program. That way you have a full legitimate degree in say Math that you can use for a position in the private sector if you want. The Education content is at the Master level and is more complete and detailed. Your point is very valid and if a community college transfer is involved depending on the college it can also impact.
It doesn't matter what programs schools have. What matters is how the state certifies teachers. I'm in Michigan. My university program certified me with a major in chemistry and minors in physics and math (I convert the math minor to a major next year). However, my state still allows teachers holding general science certification (a group major) to teach chemistry and physics. They, however, can teach any science whereas I'm limited to chemistry and physics because I have single subject major/minors. While the state considers me more highly qualified to teach my subjects, guess who gets the interview when there is an opening? They do because the state permits them to teach any science. The fact my university pushed having an actual major in what you teach doesn't help me now. The state set it up so that people with the general science certification have the golden ticket.
I would advise anyone thinking about teaching science to find out if your state allows holders of general science certs to teach your subject. If so, a single subject major, like mine, is worthless.
It is not a matter of investigating but monitoring. You need to look at individual state guidelines. There are those states that require the local district to monitor. That usually means a case worker is assigned and that case worker is required to make a pre determined minimum number of visits to the home to see the school setting and to affirm that the schooling is taking place. Some states require parents to submit a plan and that plan usually contains how the curriculum will be delivered and the model used. If in the course of that monitoring issues are noticed a social agency will usually be contacted and a determination made if any thing else is needed. Many states pre approve home schooling curriculum and have approval lists available. It really is a fairly sophisticated process in some areas and with built in safe guards and accountability. Remember social services would have information on any previous issues related to the house.
I'm not familiar with every state's homeschooling laws, but I don't think that most or many require a case worker to visit the home, or to pre-approve homeschooling curriculum. Most simply require testing or a portfolio review, some require only a notice of intent, a few require authorization by the school system (absurd, IMO), and some don't require anything at all (including my state!).
One might think you've been watching too much Dr. Phil, Goldie.
I am amazed at the reaction here.
A person would have to have led a very sheltered life not to know that there are predators and they are just as 'nice' as the good people who post on this forum - but they are after your children.
I would gladly allow my child to be interviewed and tested to ensure that I were covering all proper grounds with them and also that I respected a process that can also save a poor child from being mistreated.
A person would have to have led a very sheltered life not to know that there are predators and they are just as 'nice' as the good people who post on this forum - but they are after your children.
I would gladly allow my child to be interviewed and tested to ensure that I were covering all proper grounds with them and also that I respected a process that can also save a poor child from being mistreated.
If I have no guilt, why should I object?
Because it's not the government's job to interview and test parents or children, unless there is an allegation of abuse or neglect. It's also a huge breach of privacy. By saying "all homeschoolers should consent to this" basically says "homeschoolers are more likely to neglect or abuse their children than the rest of the population." There would be general uproar if the government said "hey, WE FEEL that people making under $50,000 are more likely to abuse their kids, so we're going to start searching homes and interviewing kids from families making less than that amount." Or, "WE FEEL that people living in apartments are more likely to abuse their kids than those living in houses, so we're going to start inspecting all apartments, checking out crawl spaces, basements, and closets of apartment dwellers, and putting those kids through psychological testing." It's discriminatory and ignorant. Homeschoolers are no more likely than anyone else to abuse their children, and to imply otherwise (by saying that all homeschools should be inspected) is insulting.
Would you allow government officials to enter your home to inspect your pantry and refrigerator, because they notice that you don't go out to eat very often? Perhaps if you don't have the money to eat out, you don't provide your child with enough fruits and vegetables either. Or maybe they feel that you eat out too often, and your children are consuming too much salt and fat. Would you make a detailed menu and present it to officials (who may or may not have any nutritional background whatsoever) so they could "evaluate" whether your child was eating properly? If they found that your kid wasn't taking in "enough" protein, or was below the 20th percentile of their growth chart, would you allow them to dictate exactly what your child would or would not eat? If they then did not attain a greater rate of growth, would you support them wanting to remove your child from your care, and accuse you of neglect? After all, allowing them into your home simply would show a respect for the process that may save a few kids from malnutrition, right?
Because it's not the government's job to interview and test parents or children, unless there is an allegation of abuse or neglect. It's also a huge breach of privacy. By saying "all homeschoolers should consent to this" basically says "homeschoolers are more likely to neglect or abuse their children than the rest of the population." There would be general uproar if the government said "hey, WE FEEL that people making under $50,000 are more likely to abuse their kids, so we're going to start searching homes and interviewing kids from families making less than that amount." Or, "WE FEEL that people living in apartments are more likely to abuse their kids than those living in houses, so we're going to start inspecting all apartments, checking out crawl spaces, basements, and closets of apartment dwellers, and putting those kids through psychological testing." It's discriminatory and ignorant. Homeschoolers are no more likely than anyone else to abuse their children, and to imply otherwise (by saying that all homeschools should be inspected) is insulting.
Would you allow government officials to enter your home to inspect your pantry and refrigerator, because they notice that you don't go out to eat very often? Perhaps if you don't have the money to eat out, you don't provide your child with enough fruits and vegetables either. Or maybe they feel that you eat out too often, and your children are consuming too much salt and fat. Would you make a detailed menu and present it to officials (who may or may not have any nutritional background whatsoever) so they could "evaluate" whether your child was eating properly? If they found that your kid wasn't taking in "enough" protein, or was below the 20th percentile of their growth chart, would you allow them to dictate exactly what your child would or would not eat? If they then did not attain a greater rate of growth, would you support them wanting to remove your child from your care, and accuse you of neglect? After all, allowing them into your home simply would show a respect for the process that may save a few kids from malnutrition, right?
No, it doesn't. It recognizes that homeschooling can be done in isolation. That the safety net of frequent exposure to others who are required to report abuse isn't there.
Reality is, every time I send my kids to school, they are evaluated to determine if there is possible abuse because they are seen by others frequently enough that those others would notice something was wrong. Why should homeschoolers not have to submit to the same scrutiny? Why are they entitled to more privacy in raising their children than anyone else? You are asking for special treatment of homeschoolers.
As a teacher, I am a mandatory reporter. I am required to report anything suspicious. Who are the mandatory reporters that homeschooled children see when it's not controlled by parents? Doctors are but it's easy enough to not abuse Johnny for a few days before a doctor's appointment so bruises can heal.
Homeschoolers choose not to place their children in schools. In so doing, they bypass one system the government has set up to detect and report child abuse. Some other system needs to be put in place to replace it.
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Importance of education
Believe me, he was a constant source of entertainment for our family. 
and behind the times, let me say that I realize technology demands higher skills now-a-days, but I know far too many people who can't pass a test, but certainly can build anything (and understand completely how to do so) with their hands -sans any kind of formal education degree. To me anyway, if we try to put too much emphasis on formality with regard to education, then I think we run the risk of missing great talent.
