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No, public doesn't mean competent, but it doesn't automatically mean incompetent, either. Same thing for homeschooling. I don't believe in micromanaging homeschoolers, but some basic minimal requirements seem appropriate.
(as for education, a public school can teach independent learning, too. It's not homeschooling-exclusive. It's easier for homeschooling parents to embrace flexibility, but it's not an automatic given)
Any statistics on how long it takes a homeschooled kid to graduate from college versus a public school kid at the same college? Any statistics on the percent of home schooled kids versus public school kids need remedial non-credit college classes?
Any statistics on how long it takes a homeschooled kid to graduate from college versus a public school kid at the same college? Any statistics on the percent of home schooled kids versus public school kids need remedial non-credit college classes?
Hmmm... I don't know that there are stats. There is a lengthy article here, but I didn't see the info that you were looking for:
I will say, though, that homeschooled teens typically don't do the "study at home for 12 years then go to college for 4 years" gig. I'm sure some do, but many of the ones I know don't. They start taking community college classes at age 15 or 16 for some classes, then add more each year. They may have an associate's degree by age 18, then either join the workforce or matriculate into a 4 year school for the rest of their credits. So while it may take longer for them to get a 4 year degree (because they might start off taking only one or two classes in their mid-teens), they may graduate with their bachelor's degree earlier than many.
Any statistics on how long it takes a homeschooled kid to graduate from college versus a public school kid at the same college? Any statistics on the percent of home schooled kids versus public school kids need remedial non-credit college classes?
Just wanted to chime in with what I'd expect and why.
I'd expect them to graduate faster because using community colleges for math and science courses is common. As long as the credits transfer, they'll be ahead of the game. My dd's high school does this only with the top students. As a homeschooler, you could do this with any student who could pass and many lower level college courses are no harder than a high school course. (I started college late so I had to remediate).
I also would not expect remediation to be needed because when you look at homeschool graduates, you are, literally, looking at the homeschool success stories. If homeschool doesn't work, families tend to quit and return their children to the public schools. Only those for whom it's a good fit stick with it. Public schools OTOH have to stick with the child whether the program fits well or not. (which is one big reason you can't just compare test scores between the two and declare homeschooling better)
Now, in HS'ing there is the possiblity that the teacher is clueless and simply teaches the child wrong. Those kids would need remdiation. There are a lot of science concepts out there that are out and out wrong but believed to be true.
When I was in high school, taking Honors classes, we learned out of a textbook. The teacher simply followed the curriculum, and, to be honest, if she'd not been there, we (the students) would have figured it out from the book. It's all right there, self-explanatory if you are able to read and perform basic mathematical functions.
Do you really feel that taking life skills lessons is a good use of your children's time, assuming you teach these things at home? I'm sorry, but if someone suggested I sign my kids up for a laundry-washing class, I'd turn blue from laughing!
It's true. Most of us didn't need the teachers there. I know that I always read my textbook before we had to and taught myself the concepts in all of my classes if I didn't already know them.
It's well above poverty. I would guess few welfare recipients are homeschooling their kids. I looked at some research not too long ago that compared income levels for public vs. homeschooling. The lower income bracket was much lower than the for public schooling. Educated mothers were quite a bit higher for homeschooling and that's a big one for predicting success of children. Unfortunately, they were still the minority.
I apologize for my lack of clarity and I hope that this post sheds some light on what I said.
If you'll take a look back, the data included families making "below $35,000." You're absolutely right to say that $35,000 is above the poverty level. However, "below" also includes "any number below $35,000," which I assume also includes "$0." This is below the poverty level, of course.
Secondly, although you did say "the lowest-performing students," the data are very clear on the correlation between income and academic performance. Although there are, of course, the lower-income families whose kids are academically successful and wealthy families whose kids are academically unsuccessful, the correlation is exceedingly strong, as of course I know you know. Therefore, while performance and poverty are not synonymous, they're a dynamic duo rarely separated from one another.
No, we're talking about math classes and science classes not everyday stuff you do at home classes.
I'm curious as to why you'd use a school for one subject but avoid school for others that are, traditionally, taught in school. Why pick and choose? Why is school good for some subjects but not others?
I'm sure BeanandPumpkin will, of course, have her or his own answer to this question, but I think it's a worthwhile question to ask. If you don't mind, I'll answer it for myself, and thank you for bringing it up and getting me to think about the issue. I apologize for the length of my answer.
"School," except if someone is thinking very broadly -- or in some circumstances, very simplistically -- isn't a monolithic subject, of course. I know I'm certainly not telling you something you don't already know. It's kind've like "food." If you like home-cooked food, the analogy might go, why would you bother to go to a restaurant? I'll get to the answer to that one in a second.
I can't speak for any homeschooling parent besides myself, but the education I consider to be most crucial is the education that takes place when my child is very young and is learning the foundational skills and concepts on which everything else is built. I'm sure you're even more aware of this than I am, but I'm sure you know that if a student has a very, very solid understanding of fundamental math skills, she or he can learn other mathematics concepts with much greater ease than someone who's still counting on his fingers.
We are homeschooling during the elementary years because we believe that we have a far better command of core subjects, specifically math, English, and history, than does our local zoned school as a whole. We believe that we have a far more coherent and logical approach to science and history than does our district, and moreover, we can teach our child at our child's level of challenge not just in one subject, but in all.
I am concerned both as a teacher and as a parent with the shaky grasp of mathematics, grammar, and English that, unfortunately, too many of our colleagues at the elementary level demonstrate. Obviously, there are many fine teachers at that level, but regrettably (particularly in math), many studies have demonstrated that elementary teachers have some genuine problems with mathematics -- for many of them, the subject makes them uncomfortable.
(If I may be so bold as to presume, I believe this math anxiety might have possibly been the reason why your teacher became angry when you told her that all the numbers she had written on the board were divisible by two. I wasn't there, but I believe a teacher who was far more knowledgeable about math would a) have phrased the problem differently, i.e., "...evenly divisible by two..." or b) have been delighted to have a student who could think out of the box, if you will forgive the cliche.)
When our child is older and may wish to pursue a career in the sciences or in medicine, this would be an appropriate time to consider educational options at the high school level. Again, this is a broad statement, but I think I can confidently assert that most calculus and trigonometry teachers are very, very comfortable with mathematics. There may be a few teachers out there who are "over their heads" with the subject, of course -- no discipline is entirely free from incompetent practitioners of it -- but I'd say the odds are pretty good.
Given a strong, solid foundation in mathematical skills, English literature, history, grammar, and science, it's easier to trust that subsequent classes one's child takes won't do them serious damage. To use an analogy, if your house's chimney is knocked down by a hurricane, it's a pain. If your house's foundation is cracked, though, it's all over. It's far easier, in short, to undo damage done by a poor educator, should she or he unfortunately encounter one.
I hope this has helped to answer your question, and again, I apologize for the length of the response.
That would be a subset of the exclusive school. I'll bet I could come up with the same numbers too if I picked which students would test. Apples to oranges here.
And that would be how I feel about any set of supposed "testing scores" to include the comparison of US testing scores with other countries such as China, etc.
And that would be how I feel about any set of supposed "testing scores" to include the comparison of US testing scores with other countries such as China, etc.
You, definitely, need to look at percentages of kids tested. Better yet, a break down by percentile. Unfortunately, when you do that, we still lose. The top 10% of our kids compare favorably but we drop off quickly from there. Too quickly.
You, definitely, need to look at percentages of kids tested. Better yet, a break down by percentile. Unfortunately, when you do that, we still lose. The top 10% of our kids compare favorably but we drop off quickly from there. Too quickly.
Perhaps, but call me a cynic: I still believe that we only see the percentile that is provided for us to compare.
If we're going to discuss homeschooling vs. public schooling in the context that demographics and other factors must be considered in the success or failure of homeschooling, then I think it's fair to look at who's providing the testing score data that seems to worry us so much as well.
I can say only based on my experience watching homeschooling in action, that I find the children that I know to be more mature and better behaved in general. I also tend to find that they take more time to investigate things, and don't tend to be as rushed. Obviously, there's variation in every circumstance, but I don't know a lot of people on the "lower educated" if-you-will end of the spectrum who homeschool. Usually, in my area anyway, they need to work for a living, and although they would like to teach their own kids, necessity dictates that they send them to publicly-funded schools.
I also feel that it only makes sense that homeschoolers may have greater achievement academically because they are able to devote more time in general to providing the basics without having to allot time for other "programs" such as having the counselor come into the classroom for a period of time to discuss how to avoid drugs, resolve conflicts, etc.
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Apples to oranges here.
Obviously, there's variation in every circumstance, but I don't know a lot of people on the "lower educated" if-you-will end of the spectrum who homeschool. Usually, in my area anyway, they need to work for a living, and although they would like to teach their own kids, necessity dictates that they send them to publicly-funded schools.
