Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
How can you make it to High School and be reading and writing at a 3rd grade level? I think if you are doing 3rd grade work you should be in the 3rd grade no matter how old you are. Or maybe a special class, but not in a regular 10th grade class. I do not think you should get a 12th grade diploma either.
Does that sound to harsh or do you agree?
In our system they have a "no-fail" policy. So the kids just move on year after year.....it's really sad. Pre-school, kindergarten and Grade 1 are all great ways to honestly assess where your child is at. Problem is, at least up here that in kindergarten some kids will be almost a full year behind simply because of the time of the year they were born. I know people who have argued like crazy to hold their kids back a year in the really early years and it seems to have benefited the child, but every situation is unique. A child who is read too regularly, visits the library, and has access to books generally does very well.
It is definitely wrong to have young people graduating from high school who cannot read, write or spell.
How can you make it to High School and be reading and writing at a 3rd grade level? I think if you are doing 3rd grade work you should be in the 3rd grade no matter how old you are. Or maybe a special class, but not in a regular 10th grade class. I do not think you should get a 12th grade diploma either.
Does that sound to harsh or do you agree?
Realistically--to have a 15 yr old in a class of 8yr olds would not be good.
I think some states, maybe FL--issue an alternative diploma. 'No Child Left Behind' and other programs are designed to address this issue
Well, the way I see it is not everyone is meant to go to school, graduate and go to college. Don't get me wrong, the issue proposed on this post is definitely a sad one but I guess the point I'm trying to make is what's this 10th grader going to do? Be in school until he's 30? 40? Or 50?
I think everybody should have the right to an education and that we should all be able to read and write. Maybe there should be alternative programs like teaching kids a skill rather than trying to prepare everybody for college. In many countries that's the way their education system works. Instead of an academic high school per say, kids would go to a vocational high school instead and learn a specific skill so they can function in the "real world".
I'm kind of getting off topic now so I'll leave it at that. To answer your question though, no, I don't think the 10th grader should be in a classroom with 3rd graders. I think it would ruin any confidence or self-esteem he has not to mention the cruel ridicule he would get from his peers.
Or maybe a special class, but not in a regular 10th grade class. I do not think you should get a 12th grade diploma either.
OK, I know a 15 year old kid in a room wih 8 year old would not be good. But I get really up set to know that a kid who can not read or write beyond a 3rd grade level will get the SAME diploma as the kid who is doing 12th grade work.
I am just so tired of holding the whole class behind because of a couple of kids who are behind. We can't seperate them into a groups based on their skill level. I would like to have a class of the smartest kids, a class of average kids and a class of the sclower kids. I am sick of all of the special programs and special teachers to help the slower kids. Yet there are very few thing to help the smartest kids go beyond.
As far as putting them on a more skill level course like VO- TECH classes, I don't think that would work well either. Let's say the are in a welding class. There is a lot of math involved in that class. There is a lot of reading prints. SO what is a welding teacher to do if he has a class of 20 students in the 10th-12 grades and 6 of them are on a 5th grade reading/math level. He is there to teach welding not reading and math. These kids will not be able to pass a written test because the can not read it. The will not be able to know the math needed to figure out how weld. So the teacher has to read the test out loud to the kids who can not read well, write the answers down for the ones who can not write well. The teacher must have a certain % of the students to pass the class of the teacher gets it trouble. Guess what endsup happening??? The teacher starts to teach to the level of the lowest kids so the can all pass the class. So the average student does not get to learn at the grade level they are at because there are a few kids who are behind.
My husband is a PS welding teacher and my daughter is a 3rd grade gifted student. I hear such stories from my husband everyday. My daughter was told to just read a book when she is done with her work so the teacher has time to help the other slower kids. The slower kids have special classes to go to 3 times a week to help them with math and reading, yet my child does not have any special classes to go to.
At my high school (public school system), we had 3 level of the same class. Take Algebra I for example. There was Algebra I - academic, Algebra I - advanced, Algebra I - honors to accomodate various levels of a student's academic skills. I guess I was lucky and went to a good school. Are there not gifted & talented programs for your daughter?
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you're a teacher, you seem kind of insensitive. You make totally valid point but to suggest that a "dumber kid" doesn't deserve a diploma as "regular kids" is a really mean thing to say. I mean, I know you were just trying to make a point but sometimes a person's circumstances may keep that person from advancing academically (or I know, the student could just be really lazy).
Assuming you are a teacher, maybe you can revamp the way your class works. Having students of different skill levels work together may be a good thing. The "smart" students can help the "dumb" students and doing this will also reinforce what the "smart" students know and the "dumb" students will realize that they can achieve more.
You can also have various activities available for students who finish early or talk to parents of the gifted to see what they can work on to improve their educational experience. Talking to the parents of the "less advanced" may be a good idea to see what their home life is like and whether the parent is willing to help their child do better in school or you may realize they are the root of your student's problems.
I know it is tough being a teacher and it is also tough being a parent. Your daughter has an extremely bright future ahead of her, I'm sure! Maybe you can talk to your daughter's teacher about letting her do other activities that you think will her her intellectually. She can also serve as a "tutor" if you will while the teacher has to help other students.
I'm just trying to help so I hope you didn't perceive anything to be offensive and I do sincerely apologize in advance if I was.
Any educational system that does not teach each student at their own level of comprehension, and does not strive to improve that student, is an inferior system.
When I was in school, many many, moons ago, there were different levels of teaching in classes. Most students were placed in regular classes, some were in advanced, and others were in "Special Ed".
Nowadays if you tried to place a kid in a class called "Special Ed" you'd get sued by every PC fanatic in sight. Back then SE classes were an acceptable means to help students that needed it. We even had other students that volunteered to tutor them. They weren't looked down on because they couldn't keep up (well there were a some jerks that did, but then there always are a few meat heads that don't know any better), and really helped those students that needed it. It was a valid, working system and gave our state one of the highest educational rankings in the country year after year.
Bushie and his buddies certainly didn't do anything to forward the ability of our educational system while in office. Perhaps the next bunch will take the same amount of money thrown away in Iraq every year and create a system that truly educates.
OK, I know a 15 year old kid in a room wih 8 year old would not be good. But I get really up set to know that a kid who can not read or write beyond a 3rd grade level will get the SAME diploma as the kid who is doing 12th grade work.
I am just so tired of holding the whole class behind because of a couple of kids who are behind. We can't seperate them into a groups based on their skill level. I would like to have a class of the smartest kids, a class of average kids and a class of the sclower kids. I am sick of all of the special programs and special teachers to help the slower kids. Yet there are very few thing to help the smartest kids go beyond.
As far as putting them on a more skill level course like VO- TECH classes, I don't think that would work well either. Let's say the are in a welding class. There is a lot of math involved in that class. There is a lot of reading prints. SO what is a welding teacher to do if he has a class of 20 students in the 10th-12 grades and 6 of them are on a 5th grade reading/math level. He is there to teach welding not reading and math. These kids will not be able to pass a written test because the can not read it. The will not be able to know the math needed to figure out how weld. So the teacher has to read the test out loud to the kids who can not read well, write the answers down for the ones who can not write well. The teacher must have a certain % of the students to pass the class of the teacher gets it trouble. Guess what endsup happening??? The teacher starts to teach to the level of the lowest kids so the can all pass the class. So the average student does not get to learn at the grade level they are at because there are a few kids who are behind.
My husband is a PS welding teacher and my daughter is a 3rd grade gifted student. I hear such stories from my husband everyday. My daughter was told to just read a book when she is done with her work so the teacher has time to help the other slower kids. The slower kids have special classes to go to 3 times a week to help them with math and reading, yet my child does not have any special classes to go to.
I am going to try to address everything that I can, or that I care to address:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ123;659043[I
]OK, I know a 15 year old kid in a room wih 8 year old would not be good. But I get really up set to know that a kid who can not read or write beyond a 3rd grade level will get the SAME diploma as the kid who is doing 12th grade work[/i].
In my OPINION, t is not fair to have a child work extremely hard, harder perhaps than the child who is doing 12th grade work, but unable to work on that "normal" child's level due to obviously some situation such as a language barrier, learning disability, whathaveyou.
We are to teach each child on the level that they are able to learn on. If that's 3rd grade, unforunately for him, that is the BEST he can do. He can't do any better, and it's not his fault. He should be awarded a diploma just based on doing well at the level of work he is able to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ123
I am just so tired of holding the whole class behind because of a couple of kids who are behind. We can't seperate them into a groups based on their skill level. I would like to have a class of the smartest kids, a class of average kids and a class of the sclower kids. I am sick of all of the special programs and special teachers to help the slower kids. Yet there are very few thing to help the smartest kids go beyond. .
I'm a teacher, so I deal with this every single day. For years. I have a child reading on a kindergarten level....and a child reading on a fourth grade level, plus the children who are reading at the normal level which is 1st/2nd. If a teacher has to "hold a class behind" then, in my opinion, that teacher is not a teacher, and should get another profession. If the child is advanced, you advance the lesson for them, along the same material being taught. If the child is below level, you take the same material and modify it to the point that they can be successful. No one gets held behind. The smartest kids don't need too much extra help to go beyond-they will naturally be able to go beyond. The slower children need those things so that perhaps they can be successful too. The right kind of teachers, the teachers that we need (like me), know that not all children learn the same, not all children are the same, and that they must be taught what they learn, in the method they can learn it in.
In my class I have a diagnosed gifted child, one going through the testing, and about 4 high achievers, along with two ESE students and a whole bunch of "normal" students. If any finish their work early they can: read an AR book (where they take a computer test on), finish up work they haven't finished, or I have a board called "early finishers" where I place stuff on it. So what if your daughter reads? You can't get enough reading! You want her to work every single second of school?
OK, I know a 15 year old kid in a room wih 8 year old would not be good. But I get really up set to know that a kid who can not read or write beyond a 3rd grade level will get the SAME diploma as the kid who is doing 12th grade work.
Yes, but will that kid (reading at a 3rd grade level) be accepted to the same colleges, if any? And will they end up in a successful, high-paying career? Most likely not! So while they may both have a high school diploma, that doesn't mean their lives will be equal from that point on... as another post said, we don't have much of a choice beyond keeping them in school forever - or not awarding them a degree, which leaves us with another uneducated person in the labor force. As long as the kid completed all requirements to graduate, they should be allowed to receive their diploma.
Quote:
My husband is a PS welding teacher and my daughter is a 3rd grade gifted student. I hear such stories from my husband everyday. My daughter was told to just read a book when she is done with her work so the teacher has time to help the other slower kids. The slower kids have special classes to go to 3 times a week to help them with math and reading, yet my child does not have any special classes to go to.
Teachers can't ignore the kids who need the most help, so that's unfortunately how things often work... and they DO have gifted programs for public students, like the one I attended here in the Bay Area during 1st & 2nd grade (until my parents sent me to a private gifted school). I'm not sure where you live, but here's info on the program I attended: Gifted & Talented Education - Specialized Programs (CA Dept of Education)
And when your daughter gets to high school, they usually have AP and/or honors classes that she can be put into. I understand your frustrations, especially since I work in the educational field (librarian)... but public schools need to accommodate both the gifted & the "slower" children. Wish I knew a good solution, but until the government decides to provide proper funding to schools, it's a moot point.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A hotly debated topic
, know that not all children learn the same, not all children are the same, and that they must be taught what they learn, in the method they can learn it in.
