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It's telling when posters need to resort to the head-smack emoticon because they can't make their point clearly in words. The truth is that there is plenty of faulty and outdated pedagogy that plagues education, and simply extending that through the summer is not the panacea to our ills. Nor will extending the year address the readiness-to-learn deficit that many kids come to school with.
I think there are cogent reasons to extend the year by taking shorter, better-spaced breaks, but unless reform is based on good pedagogy (and luckily, there are plenty of examples of this in action) it won't bring about the desired results. Beware of the law of unintended consequences which inevitably arises when a simple solution (like adding school days) is applied to a complex problem.
And I agree completely with the posters that say this would overstep the bounds of the federal government, just as NCLB did 8 years ago.
So, how is it going to defend us if Johnny can't the read the rocket manual? But on the other hand, reverting to rocks and spears have a certain appeal.
Strange how you don't demand the closing down of the 105 land grant colleges and universities established by the Federal government in 1857 that spurred both agricultural and technological innovation across the country.
Strange how you argue that the Federal governments role is to defend not to educate yet forget, or more to the point never knew, that without the passage of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 the U.S. would still be wondering how the Soviets got to the moon before us.
Strange how folks like yourself aren't rushing down the local school board demanding that all that Title I money following in the local brain factory should be returned post haste to the Federal Treasury!
God the war against ignorance is harder to fight than war against terrorist!
I agree with the people that say that the time in school needs to be maximized and that having more of the same schooling is not a good idea. I am also not for extending the school day or school year for a variety of reasons.
Just a thought though......if the school got rid of the two hours or so of HW my 5th grader has, and the one hour of HW my second grader has, then maybe keeping them for an extra hour or two is not so bad (and it would sure make evenings less stressful!!!). I still would probably be against the idea.....
Sounds like a good idea to me. US students are sorely lacking the sufficient skills to lead the world in technology. There is a reason why H1B visas and the like are so wildly popular among high tech companies, ... there AREN'T ENOUGH KIDS GETTING INTO MATH AND SCIENCE! And the ones that do aren't as advanced. Universities have complained about this for decades, it's about time we caught up to the rest of the world.
Sounds like a good idea to me. US students are sorely lacking the sufficient skills to lead the world in technology. There is a reason why H1B visas and the like are so wildly popular among high tech companies, ... there AREN'T ENOUGH KIDS GETTING INTO MATH AND SCIENCE! And the ones that do aren't as advanced. Universities have complained about this for decades, it's about time we caught up to the rest of the world.
There's a reason for that. Kids have more opportunities to excel outside of math and science than many other countries. Pounding more of it into their head isn't going to suddenly make them like it and want to make a career out of it.
We do NOT need extra hours in school. What we DO need is a breakdown based on ability per SUBJECT for each kid starting as early as 1st grade. This way the kids that are ahead in say reading or math can be in one class together with those that are on the "same page". Students that are struggling in a certain subject could be grouped together in one class and have a teacher that can help them and possibly an assistant. This way the kids are ALL learning on their own and individual needs. Throwing kids of all different and wide ranging abilities together in one class just keeps the teacher teaching to either the lowest or middle kids. They either teach to the lowest in hopes of bringing them up or they ignore them thinking they won't improve. My oldest daughter went thru the local G&T magnet school and they did this even with the "gifted" kids starting in 1st grade. It makes a night and day difference. You won't have kids sitting their bored on either end of the spectrum and in the middle. The teachers can actually get MORE accomplished. Ask any teacher if they could actually get more taught and accomplished if every student was on the "same page" for that subject and the resounding answer shall be "YES!".
For high school go to block schedules. My oldest daughters high school does this. She has "A" and "B" days. She is in each class for 1 1/2 hours. A teacher can get a LOT more done in that time period vs a 40-50 minute class. They can actually get in depth on the subject at hand and when actually working something in class. They should have the time to do some of the actual work in class w/ an 1 1/2 class and the teacher is right there to help if they need it. No waiting till the next day after getting home and then trying it and not understanding.
There is no need to add hours or days. We just have to learn to maximize the time they are already in school. Right now many schools are failing in this area and it won't matter if we make school year round w/ a few days off here and there and it a 10 hour day. If they add 3 hours per day that is what we would have here as the kids have 7 hour days in school as it is. If they went to a 10 hour day there better NOT be any homework as they should have had ample time to get any work done during "normal" school hours.
I totally agree with you, but this is not the direction the current educational "best practices" are going in this country. As a teacher, I was told to have mixed level groups because the "smarter" children will help the lower achieving kids, and we also don't want to single out the dumb kids. I never understood this, because from my experience, it seems the "dumb" kids were only teased more by their peers when it became clear they couldn't read or couldn't add. As the kids realized they weren't on level with their peers, their behavior issues increased taking away from instructional time I had with them. Honestly, I was always relieved when certain students left the room for their outside interventions, as I could really focus on teaching to students who were there to learn!
Do you mean as in...the problems, as in represented by our low standing against other countries such as Japan, as to do with the students home situations? I highly doubt that. It has to do with a watered down, find a kool-aid flavor everyone likes, and you're just socially awkward if you don't like the flavor, education. The curriculum and expectations are just too low. How do we raise the bar when we already are so far low, how would we get them to catch up to where they would be if they had been allowed to excel to their full potential in the first place? Who the weak fall weaker? I doubt it, but even so, averaging the scores, the excelling students would be so far ahead that the overall test score percents sure would look pretty.
I don't necessarily mean that all our problems with the educational system can be attributed to the home. I can definitely see your point of view. But extending the students school day and year are not going to solve our problems. America already has a culture of working too hard, not giving ourselves breaks, just to stay on top. What has that cost us? We need to revamp the system yes, but I don't think this is the answer. MY opinion.
I also think that there is such a strongly virulent trend toward anti-intellectualism that all of the rational, coherent reasons why a longer school year/day would benefit us as a nation would, of course, be wasted breath.
That's exactly the problem. Student achievement will not improve until that is addressed.
Do you really think we can compete with countries who have their kids in school 230 days per year when our kids only go to school 180 days per year? We NEED a longer school year AND a longer school day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
The only part of your post I agree with is longer class periods but not A/B blocks. On an A/B block, a teacher sees a particular class only 90 days per year.
Last year I taught classes both on and off block. While I did have time for more indepth labs with my block classes, the fact is, I only do those kinds of activities about 12 times a year. The rest of the time, the block was a determent. One problem is you have to teach two days of material in one day (otherwise you only get through half of the material which often happens in blocks as you describe) which means there is no time for students to go home, try things on their own and come back with their questions before you move on. I had to assign homework for one section and go on to the next before the kids had a chance to do it or take classroom time up for homework which meant less would be taught in the end.
Currently we're at an intermediate. We're on a rotating schedule so that we see all of our classes 4 times a week. It's not perfect but it's better than the A/B block. Instead of seeing my A/B kids only 90 days a year, I see all of my classes 144 days per year. Classes are shortened to 63 minutes but that's not bad. I see my classes 252 minutes a week this year compared to 225 last year but what I really like is having another class meeting per week. It was well into October before we were where we are this year. I'd rather have shorter more frequent meetings. That way I can give small homework assignements each night that reinforce what was taught. Labs take two days but that's a small trade off when you gain both in time in class and in numbers of days you see students.
Jumping in on the bandwagon late. My answer is yes, I do believe our kids can compete with less days than 230
Why do I say that? Well, lets have a history lesson, we competed and our nation did very well from the 60's to the early 90's. It is when we allowed the school system to dumb down our kids that things began to change. Why should a child try his/her hardest to make a 100 on a test to get an A when in reality all they need is a 90? When you still pass when you make a 68 on a test? We had to study harder to get those good grades.
Let's not forget the higher suicide rate in the country's where school goes on for longer periods of time either.
Our system is broken, filled with outdated materials that cannot compete with the electronics our kids have enough to hold their attention. Why not base classes around real world situations? Maybe not all the time, but enough for them to realize why algerbra is really utilized in real life. Why good oral and written skills are invaluable in real life. Heck, they sure do need to learn economics in a way that can have them knowlegable enough to balance their checkbooks and create a budget and learn to stick with it.
I also agree with putting kids together who are on the same skill level. When you have a mix, and the teacher spends the first three days drumming part of a chapter over and over to make sure the slow kids get it, the smart kids are going to be bored and seek entertainment and activities elsewhere and not be interested in school.
Why is it evil to give our kids something to be excited about at school besides hot chicks and athletics...? Let them actually use thier brains to think and come up with solutions to problems that mimick daily life. Have them work with others so they will know how groups work together for the common good!
Oh I could go on and on about different ways kids could be excelling in school. And if I can figure out this many, why can't the powers that be who are supposed to be 'smart' in these things figure something out similiar?
Is it money? Or simply not caring? Or politically correctness?
You sound uneducated. What, was the 6th grade all that hard for you?
While I don't think that the federal government should necessarily mandate education (because it's funded locally, not because of "state's rights" mind you), more school days in the year wouldn't be a bad thing. They can still spend time with family in the summer while going to school... it's called not sitting around on your arse all day long playing video games. It's called the weekend. There could also be multiple breaks throughout the school year... say one or two weeks every one to two months would be off. That would allow them to be outside and play. They can go outside and play in the winter time. Unless you insist on wrapping our children in bubble wrap, bathing them in hand sanitizer, and making sure they don't experience the slightest bit of discomfort in their life....
If anything, it would be a BETTER experience for them. When you have to start working when you're an adult you don't get to fark around all summer long for months at a time... you go to work EVERY week, and, in the US, you MIGHT be lucky if you get 1-2 weeks vacation each year (paid or not). So why don't we do our kids a favor and help prepare them for the real world that approaches them faster than they want it to?
I have a college education, and have self educated myself in many areas. I did ok in 6th grade.
The current system is totally insane, by any stretch of the imagination. Students already spend plenty of time in school (13 years, k-12). That should be more than enough time to master subjects. The idea of adding more time to failed results in lunacy.
-The govt (whether local, state, or federal) shouldn't be in the business of mandating whether kids can sit around all day. If you're getting the right education to begin with, sitting around all day in the summer shouldn't harm them.
-They already experience plenty of discomfort in school. Put in dangerous, distracting schools. Told where they can sit, and when they can use the bathroom. I remember in 11th and 12th grade (95/96), we got the "luxury" in one class of deciding where we can sit.
-Students could use summer breaks very effectively. Working on their own projects or interests. Interning. I think the goal of school should be to build competency. Not just fill a quota of hours per day. Or fill quotas for test scores. If no competency is being developed, then I think it's ineffectual.
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We NEED a longer school year AND a longer school day.
