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Old 10-03-2009, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,476 posts, read 6,728,692 times
Reputation: 5883

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Lune View Post
I believe the reason that Asian countries do better overall in education is due to the fact that education excellence is reminded to the children all the time. To do less than that is to bring shame upon one's family and self. While that may be the extreme case for certain Asian families, Asian families in general raise their children to value education as something not to be taken for granted. Drum roll in the reinforced speeches about Asian parents working hard to raise their children and their children should work hard so they don't have to suffer, financially, in the future

I think if the parents of other countries took this "guilt-trip" approach to their children, I'm sure their test grades would come out better. A huge chunk of Americans drop out of high school, which is scary. Where's the parental guide?
Bingo!
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,398,439 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
I voted for President Obama, but not on the basis of his education "policies." It was clear to me then and is clear to me now that he views students like products and schools like factories.

Merely extending our current practices to more days per year will do little positive and many things negative for our educational system and for the students in it.

If the goal is to increase the drop-out rate, the idea is a good one.

If the idea is to devastate the tourist and summer camp industries, this is a good way to do it.

If the goal is to increase local and/or state taxes, this is a good way to do it.

Do I think we need to make some changes to our schools and our curriculum? Absolutely. Do I think the Obama education 'plan' will do the job? Not on your life.
Extending the school year would allow us to incorporate different practices. A large part of the reason we use the ones we do is time limitations.

If we had the time, we could emmulate what the countries that teach their children well do in school. It's kind of hard to do with a school year that's only 2/3 of what theirs is. One thing they do differently than us is they take the time to delve deep into subject matter while we gloss over things so we can get through the curriculum in a year. I believe that depth is a large part of the reason they're ahead of us.

It has been said that our education is a mile wide and an inch deep. Theirs is a mile deep. Our children are barely passing. Theirs are subject matter experts.
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,398,439 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
Bingo!
While parents, definitely, have impact and can be the difference between a child succeeding and failing, we cannot count on parents here. We have to do what we can within the walls of the school and one thing we can do is extend the school year so we can teach deeper and kids forget less over the summers.

I can't change mom and dad. We can sit here and blame them but that doesn't help our kids.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Midwest
9,204 posts, read 10,973,608 times
Reputation: 17427
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
I voted for President Obama, but not on the basis of his education "policies." It was clear to me then and is clear to me now that he views students like products and schools like factories.

Merely extending our current practices to more days per year will do little positive and many things negative for our educational system and for the students in it.

If the goal is to increase the drop-out rate, the idea is a good one.

If the idea is to devastate the tourist and summer camp industries, this is a good way to do it.

If the goal is to increase local and/or state taxes, this is a good way to do it.

Do I think we need to make some changes to our schools and our curriculum? Absolutely. Do I think the Obama education 'plan' will do the job? Not on your life.
I think he has a plan, and it's to do a job alright. A job on all of America's strengths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Lune View Post
I believe the reason that Asian countries do better overall in education is due to the fact that education excellence is reminded to the children all the time. To do less than that is to bring shame upon one's family and self. While that may be the extreme case for certain Asian families, Asian families in general raise their children to value education as something not to be taken for granted. Drum roll in the reinforced speeches about Asian parents working hard to raise their children and their children should work hard so they don't have to suffer, financially, in the future

I think if the parents of other countries took this "guilt-trip" approach to their children, I'm sure their test grades would come out better. A huge chunk of Americans drop out of high school, which is scary. Where's the parental guide?
Americans are becoming victims of our own success.

Asians clearly are ahead on work ethic and all that goes with it.
Not mentioned is the resistance in some cultures to education of any sort. Harassed and mocked, or worse, for "acting white" (studying hard and getting good grades) is certainly a factor in many blacks not putting forth effort in schools.

This is one area where BHO could actually do some good.
I haven't heard him say boo about it, guess he's too busy traveling and being on TV. Perhaps he's viewed as an oreo among the more hard core anti-education segments of black society.
When I was working in a largely-black school, almost all the males I spoke with planned on being pro athletes. This included overweight uncoordinated guys who could barely make the intramural team. Many of the girls didn't have plans, but having babies was clearly in the cards. Thank you, LBJ.

Dragging along a vast undereducated gang or trailer-park class is no way for a nation to get ahead.
Then politicians blame it on racism or on the rich (formerly known as high achievers), never mind that ALL those politicians have become millionaires on a salary of 150K per year, is discouraging in that the worst elements seem to be in charge of our society.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:15 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,626,917 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Extending the school year would allow us to incorporate different practices. A large part of the reason we use the ones we do is time limitations.

If we had the time, we could emmulate what the countries that teach their children well do in school. It's kind of hard to do with a school year that's only 2/3 of what theirs is. One thing they do differently than us is they take the time to delve deep into subject matter while we gloss over things so we can get through the curriculum in a year. I believe that depth is a large part of the reason they're ahead of us.

It has been said that our education is a mile wide and an inch deep. Theirs is a mile deep. Our children are barely passing. Theirs are subject matter experts.
I don't know many other countries, in terms of their education practices.

I can tell you when I was over in Japan working with a school for regular and autistic students there, one of the things the teachers were doing was working together on their lesson plans - until 9pm, almost every night.

They were a blast to work with, but I can't see my fellow US teachers giving up their evenings at home.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,854 posts, read 50,875,005 times
Reputation: 58749
Yes, I want my government to make a successful Wall Street executive out of my children. Their idea of success is so much greater than my own. I'm just a stupid parent who is easily duped in thinking a car mechanic or farmer is actually useful in society.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on Earth
1,052 posts, read 1,641,928 times
Reputation: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
Americans are becoming victims of our own success.

Asians clearly are ahead on work ethic and all that goes with it.
Not mentioned is the resistance in some cultures to education of any sort. Harassed and mocked, or worse, for "acting white" (studying hard and getting good grades) is certainly a factor in many blacks not putting forth effort in schools.
So Asian-Americans are the new "supremacist" and whites the new "minority", in terms of work ethics, education, and values?

It is quite sad that we, one of the greatest nations (in terms of advancement), have educational standards that can be only be compared to those of the 2nd world countries and is dropping to 3rd world country line at a rapid rate. As for politicians, we (the poor people) know that they only advance and drag because as a general populace, we allow them to.

I really think that rather than focusing on extending school hours, which causes hassle and endangerment to the children and parents, they should promote educational value similar to those stated by Asians.

Though, how you state it should be really reviewed as Asian countries had a high prevalence rate of educational-related suicide among students (due to stress, failure, etc) and the incidence rate seems to increase each year.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,398,439 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
Yes, I want my government to make a successful Wall Street executive out of my children. Their idea of success is so much greater than my own. I'm just a stupid parent who is easily duped in thinking a car mechanic or farmer is actually useful in society.
This is one of the problems with our current education system. It does not recognize the value of people who don't need college degrees. We need mechanics or our cars don't run, we need farmers or we don't eat and we need garbage collectors or we wallow in our own waste. These, and others, are important jobs to society but they don't require a degree or that someone wanting to do these jobs even take college prep courses in high school.

I'm, strongly, in favor of bringing back vocational education. Of having a non college bound track in high school. Let kids learn skills they'll need on the job instead of trying to force them all to take classes like chemistry (not that another science credit isn't good but every student doesn't need college prep chemistry to graduate).
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,398,439 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
I don't know many other countries, in terms of their education practices.

I can tell you when I was over in Japan working with a school for regular and autistic students there, one of the things the teachers were doing was working together on their lesson plans - until 9pm, almost every night.

They were a blast to work with, but I can't see my fellow US teachers giving up their evenings at home.
It was the same when I was in engineering but they took long lunches. Sometimes got in a golf game. They value building personal relationships with their coworkers. Weekdays and nights are for work. Weekends are for family and home. Definitely a different work ethic but it's one that's getting them ahead. We can either join them or step aside and let them lead.

I already give up my evenings. It's 12:15 Sunday morning and I'm here just taking 5 minutes from grading papers, writing tests and writing lesson plans. I'd love to have someone to share the burden with.

They also learn at the feet of those who have mastered trades. I would not, as a second year teacher, be on my own there. I'd be part of a group. The lowest member but part of a group. We'd all be learning from those with much more experience.

It's interesting how different work ethic is from country to country. When I've worked with German engineers, I've had to watch what time I called over there. If the call went up to qutting time it was "good-bye", click. Quitting time is quitting time over there. They worked about 35 hours a week and not one minute more. I could call Japan at any time except when people are normally sleeping and even sometimes then.

It took me a long time to figure out that Japenese engineers don't really want all those corrections they asked for in my reports actually made. Apparently, finding small errors is their way of telling you they considered your report important enough to read and pay attention to detail. (for example, they might ask that the data points that are out of spec be in red instead of black) For the longest time I thought it was a put down then my cousin who works in Japan told me that 90% of the time they don't want the changes made. It's just their way of letting you know they really read the report. To do otherwise would be tantamount to saying they didn't read it. Here, it's rude to point out errors unless they make a difference in outcomes or it's a legal document.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-03-2009 at 11:25 PM..
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:18 PM
 
Location: OUTTA SIGHT!
3,018 posts, read 3,548,091 times
Reputation: 1899
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
Yes, I want my government to make a successful Wall Street executive out of my children. Their idea of success is so much greater than my own. I'm just a stupid parent who is easily duped in thinking a car mechanic or farmer is actually useful in society.
Don't you need Math and English to be a good car mechanic?
Farming is one of the fastest SHRINKING occupations there is..not sure I'd recommend that to my kids...but I think they'd still benefit from an education if they want to be good in their field...
heh heh.


Personally, I think we STILL need more teachers (or at least teachers aides) to really improve student - teacher interaction.

Not every parent has the time (hours?) to dedicate solely to their children if they're working two menial jobs (luckily in todays climate!) or ONE HARD PROFESSIONAL ONE, um, like teaching...and have a house to take care of. At least not many people I know. Maybe there are some stay at home millionaires on C-D that can show us how's it's done while they're picking apart everything Obama suggests for our country.
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