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Old 10-12-2009, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,552,507 times
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This is both political and about education. Why do so many educators blame Bush for NCLB when it was a legislation passed by Congress and headed up by Senator Ted Kennedy? The US President doesn't write legislation. That's the job of Congress and the main person in Congress heading up NCLB was Ted Kennedy and yet I never heard or read of any educator ranting about Ted Kennedy's NCLB. Why is that?
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:21 PM
 
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Maybe it's because Bush started a NCLB type program in Texas when he was Gov. of Texas and that's what the federal NCLB is patterned after.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,552,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarNorthDallas View Post
Maybe it's because Bush started a NCLB type program in Texas when he was Gov. of Texas and that's what the federal NCLB is patterned after.
So as a governor of a state, does the governor have the authority to impliment a state wide school policy or does that fall under the state legislature? Again, NCLB was written and enacted by Congress and Senator Ted Kennedy was leading the charge.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
605 posts, read 2,161,458 times
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Because it was proposed by Bush before it was shepherded through Congress. Often credit for a bill is given to the person who first proposes it. In the same fashion, if a healthcare act is passed by our current Congress, it will likely be credited to Obama (whether a success or failure), and not to Max Baucus.

I think the reason that people most often negatively tie NCLB to Bush is because of Reading First, a provision of NCLB. If a school fails to meet certain conditions of NCLB, it may then only use "scientifically proven" means of reading instruction. As it turns out, it appeared that there may have been a conflict of interest in this provision. After its passing, the Inspector General of the Department of Education found that Bush appointees were using the act to push materials they had published on to school systems.

Technically speaking, NCLB is simply a reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, originally passed in 1965. NCLB is the name given to the 2001 reauthorization (previously reauhthorized in 1981 and 1994). There are numerous lawmakers from the 20th century who have contributed to reauthorizing the act and revising it to its present iteration as NCLB.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:50 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,642,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
This is both political and about education. Why do so many educators blame Bush for NCLB when it was a legislation passed by Congress and headed up by Senator Ted Kennedy? The US President doesn't write legislation. That's the job of Congress and the main person in Congress heading up NCLB was Ted Kennedy and yet I never heard or read of any educator ranting about Ted Kennedy's NCLB. Why is that?
Talk about loaded questions.

I rant about Ted Kennedy with regard to NCLB, as it happens - because he believed President Bush.

I blame President Bush for NCLB for the following reasons:

1) Its basic premise was built on a lie told about the Houston Public Schools - Congress (including Kennedy) was told that Houston had implemented high stakes testing without suffering a significant increase in its drop out rates. The data they provided supported that position.

Unfortunately, the data was cooked.

2) President Bush failed to replace his Sec'y of Education or the underlying goal of NCLB when the truth about Houston came out.

3) President Bush secured Senator Kennedy's support by lying to him about Special Education funding, promising he would fight for full funding of it - which would have been a first.

Kennedy was a sucker for SPED, and bought the story hook, line, and sinker, and brought enough support from the Dems to make it fly.

President Bush never even remotely attempted to secure full funding for SPED - he didn't even secure full funding for the measures of NCLB that needed to be in place to make that flawed program work the way it was intended to.

So, to recap:

1) Rod Paige was Bush's Sec'y of Education. He lied to everybody.
2) Bush appointed and then supported Rod Paige.\
3) Bush lied to Senator Kennedy.
4) Bush lied to Congress.

Was Congress culpable? Sure. OTOH, based on both the data given and the promises made, they thought it seemed reasonable.

Hmm... sounds like WMD all over again.
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,552,507 times
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Gee, and here I thought Bush was an idiot and yet he somehow managed to pull off this big scam and fool a highly experienced US Senator with decades of experience in the US Senate. Bush must have been a very smart person to have pulled that one off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
Talk about loaded questions.

I rant about Ted Kennedy with regard to NCLB, as it happens - because he believed President Bush.

I blame President Bush for NCLB for the following reasons:

1) Its basic premise was built on a lie told about the Houston Public Schools - Congress (including Kennedy) was told that Houston had implemented high stakes testing without suffering a significant increase in its drop out rates. The data they provided supported that position.

Unfortunately, the data was cooked.

2) President Bush failed to replace his Sec'y of Education or the underlying goal of NCLB when the truth about Houston came out.

3) President Bush secured Senator Kennedy's support by lying to him about Special Education funding, promising he would fight for full funding of it - which would have been a first.

Kennedy was a sucker for SPED, and bought the story hook, line, and sinker, and brought enough support from the Dems to make it fly.

President Bush never even remotely attempted to secure full funding for SPED - he didn't even secure full funding for the measures of NCLB that needed to be in place to make that flawed program work the way it was intended to.

So, to recap:

1) Rod Paige was Bush's Sec'y of Education. He lied to everybody.
2) Bush appointed and then supported Rod Paige.\
3) Bush lied to Senator Kennedy.
4) Bush lied to Congress.

Was Congress culpable? Sure. OTOH, based on both the data given and the promises made, they thought it seemed reasonable.

Hmm... sounds like WMD all over again.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:55 PM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,068,272 times
Reputation: 14434
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
This is both political and about education. Why do so many educators blame Bush for NCLB when it was a legislation passed by Congress and headed up by Senator Ted Kennedy? The US President doesn't write legislation. That's the job of Congress and the main person in Congress heading up NCLB was Ted Kennedy and yet I never heard or read of any educator ranting about Ted Kennedy's NCLB. Why is that?
NCLB was a cornerstone initiative of President Bush and then Secretary of Education Page. They both pushed it and it had bi-partisan support. It is wrong to blame any party or President Bush or Senator Kennedy for it. It was widely embraced and has been reauthorized by subsequent sessions of congress both Democratic and Republican controlled. If you don't like it you don't like it but trying to use it as part of a partisan feud is wrong.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:59 PM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,068,272 times
Reputation: 14434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
Talk about loaded questions.

I rant about Ted Kennedy with regard to NCLB, as it happens - because he believed President Bush.

I blame President Bush for NCLB for the following reasons:

1) Its basic premise was built on a lie told about the Houston Public Schools - Congress (including Kennedy) was told that Houston had implemented high stakes testing without suffering a significant increase in its drop out rates. The data they provided supported that position.

Unfortunately, the data was cooked.

2) President Bush failed to replace his Sec'y of Education or the underlying goal of NCLB when the truth about Houston came out.

3) President Bush secured Senator Kennedy's support by lying to him about Special Education funding, promising he would fight for full funding of it - which would have been a first.

Kennedy was a sucker for SPED, and bought the story hook, line, and sinker, and brought enough support from the Dems to make it fly.

President Bush never even remotely attempted to secure full funding for SPED - he didn't even secure full funding for the measures of NCLB that needed to be in place to make that flawed program work the way it was intended to.

So, to recap:

1) Rod Paige was Bush's Sec'y of Education. He lied to everybody.
2) Bush appointed and Rethen supported Rod Paige.\
3) Bush lied to Senator Kennedy.
4) Bush lied to Congress.

Was Congress culpable? Sure. OTOH, based on both the data given and the promises made, they thought it seemed reasonable.

Hmm... sounds like WMD all over again.
However the truth about the Houston schools has been known for a few years and the Democratic controlled congress has done what to stop NCLB? The current Obama administration has done what? While teachers may not like it, NCLB still has considerable support. There are efforts to improve testing and states are working in that direction with the Department of Education. Accountablity ought to and is here to stay. Are you paying attention to what is happening in the DC schools with teachers being let go? Reauthorization has been delayed while they work on building a new consensus. Are you prepared for the consequences if it doesn't get reauthorized?

Last edited by TuborgP; 10-13-2009 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:02 PM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,068,272 times
Reputation: 14434
NCLB: Act II

A good link on NCLB and the efforts being made to fine tune and improve it by the current congress and administration.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:17 PM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,068,272 times
Reputation: 14434
The Education Wonks: President Bush: The Reasoning Behind NCLB - Thoughts And Ideas Freely Exchanged

President Bush Discusses No Child Left Behind

At the end of the presidency, you get to do a lot of "lasts." I don't know if you saw on TV, but I pardoned my last Thanksgiving turkey. (Laughter.) This is my last policy speech. As President of the United States, this is the last policy address I will give. What makes it interesting is that it's the same subject of my first policy address as President of the United States, which is education and education reform.

I hope you can tell that education is dear to my heart. I care a lot about whether or not our children can learn to read, write, and add and subtract. When I was a governor of Texas, I didn't like it one bit when I'd go to schools in my state and realize that children were not learning so they could realize their God-given potential. I didn't like it because I knew the future of our society depended upon a good, sound education.

Read the part about he and Al Sharpton being partners in this effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act
The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (Pub.L. 107-110, 115 Stat. 1425, enacted January 8, 2002),[1] often abbreviated in print as NCLB and sometimes shortened in pronunciation to "nicklebee",[2] is a United States Act of Congress that was originally proposed by President George W. Bush immediately after taking office.[3] The bill, shepherded through the Senate by Senator Ted Kennedy, one of the bill's sponsors, received overwhelming bipartisan support in Congress.[4] The House of Representatives passed the bill on May 23, 2001,[5] and United States Senate passed it on June 14, 2001;[6] President Bush signed it into law on January 8, 2002.

The intitiative was bipartisan and supported by conservatives and liberals. To try to play the partisan game about the origins is wrong, dead wrong.
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