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No gifted class didn't hinder Abe Lincoln, just take them to the library and help
them pick out some classics.
If you REALLY love your children and want them to read, start doing it yourself,or if you do, step up your quality.
One in a thousand children will love to learn if his parent's just give it lip-service but really don't value it themselves, ponder that.
This is why maternal education, at birth, is one of the predictors of how children will fare. If mom valued education enough to get one herself, she'll, likely pass that valuing of educaiton on to her kids.
This is why maternal education, at birth, is one of the predictors of how children will fare. If mom valued education enough to get one herself, she'll, likely pass that valuing of educaiton on to her kids.
No. not usually,it's more an indication of socio-economic status.
I guarantee you that no more than 10% of the graduates of ANY college or university really have a love of learning for learnings sake.
The percentage is probaly just as high among high-school droputs.
Is there any evidence that gifted programs benefit society? Do gifted people who went through such programs contribute more back to society than gifted people who did not?
1) Secondary graduation rates are higher, college attendance rates are higher, and college graduation rates are higher.
2) Anecdotal, rather than evidentiary: kids who have been in programs that served them well are more likely to want to give back to those programs and/or the schools/organizations that sponsor them. This comes from 3 such programs I've seen over the last 30 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
The problem is the gift is all about the individual. Most often they are the only ones to benefit from the gift. Why does society owe them more when they were already born with more than the next person over?
It's not about owing them more. It is about giving them the same thing - an education that is appropriate for them.
And the argument from the article (did you read the article this time?) is not about society's owing them anything - it is about giving them a better education for society's benefit - not anything about doing it for the student!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
On the flip side, society does benefit from special education or vocational ed programs because they allow those who struggle or those who are simply not college bound to contribute to society in ways they could not without the programs. The gifted will contribute to their own success with or without our help and we really don't gain anything by spending extra effort, money and time on them. They are gifted after all.
Can you say myth?
Sure you can.
The facts don't support you - but this has been pointed out to you in several other places. A disproportionately high percentage of high ability students drop out of school, don't go to college, or drop out of college. Much of this is due to inappropriate education.
Some of the gifted will contribute to their own success - but since the whole point of the articlewas that they are not contributing to society's success, the rest of your argument is totally off base. We really do gain something by spending extra effort, money, and time on them.
The irony of this is that it is the exact reverse of your argument about why you matter more to smarter students - you have said repeatedly that "I can do more with them" and "I have greater impact when I am teaching better students!"
But here you are insisting that giving them more, better, or more appropriate education does nothing! To quote you,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I've incurred more of a debt to society but I really don't contribute more than the next person over.
This is why maternal education, at birth, is one of the predictors of how children will fare. If mom valued education enough to get one herself, she'll, likely pass that valuing of educaiton on to her kids.
No. not usually,it's more an indication of socio-economic status.
I guarantee you that no more than 10% of the graduates of ANY college or university really have a love of learning for learnings sake.
The percentage is probaly just as high among high-school droputs.
Maybe not but if you value education enough to get one, you'll likely pass that valuing of education on to your children. I didn't say they pass a love of learning. I said they pass valuing education.
Actually, a very good one. Educated mothers breed educated children. Maternal education has such a strong impact, it's used as a substitute for SES in some studies. Maternal education impacts things like birth weight, early childhood health, quality of education and how far children go in school. The children of a college educated mother are likely to go farther in their own educations than the children of a mother who only managed to graduate from high school, or worse, dropped out.
Actually, a very good one. Educated mothers breed educated children. Maternal education has such a strong impact, it's used as a substitute for SES in some studies. Maternal education impacts things like birth weight, early childhood health, quality of education and how far children go in school. The children of a college educated mother are likely to go farther in their own educations than the children of a mother who only managed to graduate from high school, or worse, dropped out.
Is there any evidence that gifted programs benefit society? Do gifted people who went through such programs contribute more back to society than gifted people who did not?
The problem is the gift is all about the individual. Most often they are the only ones to benefit from the gift. Why does society owe them more when they were already born with more than the next person over?
On the flip side, society does benefit from special education or vocational ed programs because they allow those who struggle or those who are simply not college bound to contribute to society in ways they could not without the programs. The gifted will contribute to their own success with or without our help and we really don't gain anything by spending extra effort, money and time on them. They are gifted after all.
I'd argue the point with you, except that from experience I'm already aware that you like to create your own definitions (which do not necessarily coincide with the standard ones) for terms such as "gifted". To wit: your insistence in another thread that only those who are driven to succeed regardless of external stimuli are actually gifted, IQ be damned.
Exactly, STRANGE all these posts totally missed the point about education for citizenship.
Problem with that is that in american schools that will inevitably amount to brainwashing according to local mores.
All a really gifted child really needs is a library card and a bit of guidance.
OUCH! That is a huge misconception. A library card and a bit of guidance is for those who want to put for the bare minimum of effort for the everyday needs of their child. The link that Aconite offered really has a lot of great material to better help you understand the stuggles that gifted kids have. Did you know that gifted teens are 400% more likely to commit suicide? There is a huge disconnect in our society and if you really believe that the point of education is for citizenship, then you will also recognize that a huge part of that would be tolerance, exceptance and understanding of how, why, and what makes people different. Instead, it alienates this kids, puts them down, and holds them back.
Last edited by flik_becky; 10-26-2009 at 10:15 PM..
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