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Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
11,314 posts, read 8,653,285 times
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Oh yeah all this touchy, feely, just give Johnny a time out, he's just misunderstood junk has a Teacher posting on here about a student getting in her face, and her reaction is to have to call the police? Get real people, these kids are getting worse and worse with no respect for their elders, thier teachers, or even the law...you know who's fault that is?? Yours, that's who, Teach your damn kids respect...and teach it at home, from the day they are born, and with respect they give you back love....
Answer me this, How many of you have little kids who call adults thier first name, rather than Mr. Smith and Mrs Jones? You put your kids on a pedastal, and when they fall off blame everyone but yourselves...
What needs to happen is it needs to become "cool" to confront the bully. Just as airline passengers are taking it upon themselves to take on those who would disrupt flights (or worse as we saw this week), other students need to see that the good guys will get accolades and attention for doing the right thing.
Managment did what they could so why would I be upset with them? So does school administration. You have to prove bullying before you can do anything about it. You don't punish students because other students told you to. Like it or not, in this country, you're innocent unless proven guilty. No, I wouldn't change that. Even bullies have rights in this country. You have to prove your case before anything can really be done.
You continue to miss the point. You can help them learn how to handle a bully, improve their self-confidence in dealing with those situations, learn how to avoid those situations, etc....
None of those actions require you to do anything with the bully at all. To simply leave the victim 100% to their own devices because you cannot directly stop the bully is a cop out.
Last edited by msm_teacher; 12-27-2009 at 04:00 PM..
Reason: typos
Unfortunately, without PROOF, it's my word against his. Student witnesses seldom will testify against other students. I once put an entire class in detention and no one would go public about who the perp was. I had several students come to me on the sly and verify it was who I thought it was but without proof, nothing could be done other than to give the entire class detention (During a lab, one student dumped a chemical into the hood of another student's coat. Fortunately, she spilled some on the floor when she did so there was a trail leading from the coat and it was noticed before the student put on the coat.) I was 99.9% sure I knew who did it but I didn't see her do it so nothing was done.
The administration talked to the girl but without proof, nothing more could be done. I've asked, repeatedly, that they install security cameras in my room. There have been three occaisions where something happened in the lab that I did not see that could have resulted in someone being hurt. Our lab is small and the classes large so it's easy for me to be occupied in one are of the room while something happens in another and I only find out when I notice the reactions of the students around the incident. I swear I need Xanax on lab days. My blood pressure goes through the roof trying to help kids with their labs while watching trouble makers.
I may buy myself a belated Christmas present and set up cameras in my room. Probably not legal but since the school has security cameras in the hallways, anything I shoot should be usable. I just don't know how much it will cost to do it.
Are you the only teacher having these problems? If not, then as a group you need to take proactive action with each other as support. If you are the only one, then it sounds like there are some classroom management issues. There are many liability issues in a science lab (regardless if the student ignored lab rules) that could hold you partially responsible if a student is hurt.
I'm just thinking--look at how the victims' response to bullying has changed over the years! Some kids, as a result of bullying--if they didn't fight back, would commit suicide.
Now, at least some of them, they are killing their classmates? Bringing guns and explosives, making plans to get 'revenge'?
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
11,314 posts, read 8,653,285 times
Reputation: 6391
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar
I'm just thinking--look at how the victims' response to bullying has changed over the years! Some kids, as a result of bullying--if they didn't fight back, would commit suicide.
Now, at least some of them, they are killing their classmates? Bringing guns and explosives, making plans to get 'revenge'?
yeah, we have really improved things haven't we...Use to be ya just hit the bully in the nose once, and magically he wanted to be your friend afterwards...
My step son was being bullied by some kid and he never said anything to me (I dunno why) but his mother was dead set against violence. After the first incidence he told his teacher, who promptly ignored him. The second incidence with reluctance he told his mother (I was still in the dark) she went up to the school and the vice principle thinking that she was a single parent ignored her also. After the third time, I found out whant was going on I told him to hit the boy back, eventhough I did not know if my son could even fight. It turns out that my son beat the boy pretty bad (bloodied his nose). After that the boy and the others who thought about bothering my son left him alone. I find that this was common amongst young boys, to prove who is the "Alpha Male" in the group. My oldest son went through the same thing and my advice was similiar and the results also were the same......no more probelms.
Were did I get this advice from? My father, like myself was an only child and had to learn how to defend oneself. My mother who was the oldest of 9 had similiar advice, after taking up for her younger siblings.
As I got older I learned to walk away (if possible) but for the most part bullies only understand one thing......resistance the more you give the less that they want to risk their reps by fighting and losing to someone everyone thinks is a coward.
Of course this may not work with every kid but it has for me and mine
You continue to miss the point. You can help them learn how to handle a bully, improve their self-confidence in dealing with those situations, learn how to avoid those situations, etc....
None of those actions require you to do anything with the bully at all. To simply leave the victim 100% to their own devices because you cannot directly stop the bully is a cop out.
No, I didn't miss he point, you did. In this country, you are innocent unless proven guilty. Until proven guilty, no one can do anything. The only thing teachers or management can do is work with the victim to help them deal with the situation. As an adult, I learned, quickly to not work with this guy if I could avoid it. And when I did, to make sure his and my boss knew of any promises he'd made or things he'd told me. All I could do was cover my arse.
The time he burned me was during a major upgrade in the plant. He was my electrical engineer. I asked him if we had enough drops for the additions I was making and he told me yes. And there were, AT THE TIME, he just forgot to tell me he had plans for half of those drops and he would have his hook ups in place before I was finished with construction. So, in the 12th hour, I didn't have enough electricity. I hadn't budgeted for additional lines and I needed 12 to complete the 24 hook ups he told me 3 months earlier there were plenty of drops for. If he'd been honest, we would have written it into the project on day one. Instead, I went over on my project by nearly $100K because it was an emergency bid. Of coures he claimed I'd never asked him about the number of drops. (We're talking running electrical lines in an explosion proof area so it's expensive.)
You learn quickly to CYA when dealing with a bully. Honestly, the only reason this guy was fired is he cost the company money. Had he just been verbally abusive or something, they would have promoted him to get rid of him.
I'm just thinking--look at how the victims' response to bullying has changed over the years! Some kids, as a result of bullying--if they didn't fight back, would commit suicide.
Now, at least some of them, they are killing their classmates? Bringing guns and explosives, making plans to get 'revenge'?
Some who are bullied have always become what they dispise. At issue today is media coverage. Kids grow up being told they are mommy's special snowflake and they deserve attention. It should be no surprise they choose to go out with a bang to get it. This is failure to teach our kids how to deal with adversity not some change in how bullying is dealt with. Kids used to feel bad, now they get mad and become a bully themselves. The escallation has to do with a rise in narcissism.
No, I didn't miss he point, you did. In this country, you are innocent unless proven guilty. Until proven guilty, no one can do anything. The only thing teachers or management can do is work with the victim to help them deal with the situation. As an adult, I learned, quickly to not work with this guy if I could avoid it. And when I did, to make sure his and my boss knew of any promises he'd made or things he'd told me. All I could do was cover my arse.
The time he burned me was during a major upgrade in the plant. He was my electrical engineer. I asked him if we had enough drops for the additions I was making and he told me yes. And there were, AT THE TIME, he just forgot to tell me he had plans for half of those drops and he would have his hook ups in place before I was finished with construction. So, in the 12th hour, I didn't have enough electricity. I hadn't budgeted for additional lines and I needed 12 to complete the 24 hook ups he told me 3 months earlier there were plenty of drops for. If he'd been honest, we would have written it into the project on day one. Instead, I went over on my project by nearly $100K because it was an emergency bid. Of coures he claimed I'd never asked him about the number of drops. (We're talking running electrical lines in an explosion proof area so it's expensive.)
You learn quickly to CYA when dealing with a bully. Honestly, the only reason this guy was fired is he cost the company money. Had he just been verbally abusive or something, they would have promoted him to get rid of him.
Again, I will try to explain. Your point centers on stopping the bully. If you can't stop him, you seem to think you are not responsible.
My point is centered on the victim EVEN WHEN YOU CANNOT STOP THE BULLY! Being helpless to stop the bully does not ever ever ever ever give a teacher an out to ignore helping the victim. Do you understand that point? No teacher's excuses will make up for a child living in silent tormment.
You can always find a way to help the victim even if you cannot stop the bully. It is that simple - help the victim, help the child that another parent entrusted to you.
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My blood pressure goes through the roof trying to help kids with their labs while watching trouble makers.
(We're talking running electrical lines in an explosion proof area so it's expensive.)
